Tree of Savior Forum

Time to nerf quickcast and Magic arrow

General Discussion
#61

Why would you want to outdps another elememe in ET? You want to destroy the mobs as fast as possible such that the timer don’t run out. You barely has enough time as a high INT elememe, why do you think you can do it with 200-400 lesser matk?

Let me show you my video of tanking workshop mobs with 1 dmg each with my elememe, once I get back from work. Get a level 220 plate armor set, and get aspersio buff. You can easily reduce the damage to nothing. Even blue spion archer will spiral arrow you with 1 dmg (proven by alot of video).

Archer 2 ranger scout or archer ranger 3 use 4 rank to be DPS, which is a stricter condition than wiz 3. Yes they use more than 1 class to be the base combo, but it still a combo of 4 ranks.

Swordsman in kToS is getting +50% slash damage buff from cleave. Archer is getting high critical rate which is equivalent to more than +50% damage buff with archer 2 (yes you need gears, but archer can deal more DPS with good gears), and even more when combined with ranger. Those are permanent too.

The good part about Ele 3 Warlock is that they are cheaper to be relevant, but with high investment their DPS eventually lose to others (such as QS3 with 200% damage buff)

Following that logic, FC has a cooldown of 30 seconds thus they are not DPS, but burst too.

The only reason why Elememe is good in this meta is not because of their DPS (which many class can outdo them), it’s because their DPS is burst AOE, which is suitable for grinding, ET, and WB because it’s too lag to utilize a low CD build.

We will easily see the meta turn away from elememe if the new map after level 280 has alot of lone mobs with even higher HP (such that elememe can’t one shot them with one frost cloud), or they are flying.

#62

you ! i like you already

#63

instead of nerfing them just buff all of useless skill especially swordman skills.

ex. zucken redel ?? do only 10k damage, that sucks. The skill from c7 do less damage than barb skill, It should do > 40k damage

2 Likes
#64

I think it’s actually okay if certain skill combinations are better than others. I mean obviously long cast high-damage skills benefit from Quick Cast (and Surespell) the most. But that doesn’t mean that all skills should have the same damage and cast time, right?

Just like skills with many hits benefit the most from Blessing.

I really don’t see the need to nerf nice synergies.

I’d rather prefer if other skills had nice, different synergies added too. If Pyro skills could significantly increase the damage of Elementalist fire spells, then going Pyro2 instead of Wiz3 might become viable too.

Or just make Pyro a better damage class in endgame, but with short cast times unlike Ele. Then you could go Wiz3 > Ele3 or just go Pyro3 for damage and add other useful buffer classes like Thauma on top.

#65

Tbh if the mobs have extremely high hp, pyro 3 will be better than ele 3.

#66

Get a better team?

The point is the paths to choose from. At rank 2 and 3, you can go archer c3, ranger, quarrel shooter, and still be good DPS.

With wizard? Wiz c3 all the way. It’s limit the build, and it obviously killed pyro, which is another DPS.

Yeah unlike wizard, spear is a thing for swordman too. And 5-10 seconds with 22 seconds cooldown is nothing compare to 100% uptime for 50% all damage

Eh, yes, if ele only have frost cloud that is. They have a bunch of other skills which they can rotate, thus becoming DPS. Doppel has 1 skill

Unless the whole game shift from gather mobs to boss fighting, or nearly-boss single mob (mission lol), I can’t see the AoE DPS going away

#67

This is a good conversation about balance, but I’ll just quickly inject that there’s a very misconstrued mindset about Earth Tower at this time, it seems.

While DPS is very important, it’s only such for four of the 20 floors. Even then, players in their current state have more than enough power to clear them. My team at this time clears the first floor with nearly two minutes to spare, and the sixth floor with upwards of a minute and a half. The 11th and 16th floors are not significantly harder than the sixth.

When you reach enough damage, it’s all about mitigation. The topic I posted some time ago about 17/F can’t be denied that they had a lot of damage, but in the end of the day their success rode on immaculate mitigation of damage.

It’s a little off-topic, but I thought I’d contribute since I see ET being used as an arguing point a lot here.

#68

YOU always have the option to choose Wiz3 or not. It’s not a requirement and there are benefits in getting other classes. It’s either you get more skills from other classes or you get a damage-buff skill. But you can’t have everything.

I would like to see someone getting Rank 1 and 2 classes to Circle 3 in one character. No, I haven’t seen one yet, ever.

#69

People like u guys who always suggest to nerf things instead requesting to buff other class which U KNOW nerf happens in ALOT OF GAMES uve played more than buff so why not request buff ?

If ur gonna request nerf everytime theres a single slightly higher dps class

Ul never be satisfied because the class ur playing ISNT the highest dps

And theres always bound to be a slight edge winner class

Do u expect a gold medal runner wait for silver medal because his behind ? No u run ur efforts to chase the gold medal , higher dps doesnt mean BEST in everything , play urself with ur skills smartly plays a role in game

If u guys are going to do this , non of the class is gonna be good because every new dps skills is gonna be requested nerf by u unsatisfied peeps

3 Likes
#70

is this game too hard that you want all class to be OP ?

just laugh on you, sorry :smile_cat:

#71

Why nerf when you can buff all the other skills?

And fix Sorc bugs. :smiley:

2 Likes
#72

I’m a wizard3 elementalist3 myself, I agree Wiz3Elem3 is a broken build with solely focus on Quickcast and Frost Cloud.
I agree Wiz3Elem3 should be the top AoE, but not in this lazy way.

To discuss it with detail:

  1. Elementalist should be excel in fire, lightning, ice and earth, but it seem it only excel in Ice (hail and frost cloud). I think Rain also should have some sort of random lightning damage strike in the area. Or Meteor would leave a trail of fire on the ground.

  2. INT stats is broken, i think it should add +1 Magic Amp (effectively 0.5 matk) as well for every stat invested. while you can nerf the quickcast’s 50% to around 20%. With this it still can absorb like going pyro c3, you have more skills to deal damage as contrast to faster cast.

  3. Frost cloud is OP with chronomancer’s buff, but if both above is fixed we can skip thisl

Talking about Chronomancer, I think it need some change as well, both elem3 + chrono3 have occupied every wizard’s slot and difficult for other build to join a party. I think Haste will need to increase consumption of stamina as well, some sort of that.

1 Like
#73

If you think that wiz 3 ele 3 solely focus on quick cast and frost cloud, clearly you shouldn’t be commenting on why this class is broken.

That’s not the reason why elememe is OP.

1 Like
#74

The problem that I see from quickcast is that some classes are too reliable with it that it becomes mandatory (resulting to an indirect nerf to a class if quickcast gets nerfed). Quickcast kinda restricts other wiz build which makes gameplay a bit boring for some other people. IMC should should implement more class combos/synergies.

1 Like
#75

It’s not because quick cast is too reliable, it’s that other class in wizard tree don’t have a skill that scale with percentage.

You are forced to choose quick cast because that’s the only class with skill that scale with your item greatly.

For archer class you can get percentage increase from either archer 2, or ranger, or scout, or even qs 3 (and many more). That’s why the variety in archer looks bigger (but there is only one true DPS class for archer, which is by stacking all the scaling skill, archer ranger 3 fletcher 3).

If you nerf quick cast, Wizard will be another swordsman. Useless in PvP (due to ktos nerf), and subpar in PvE compared to archer/cleric/buffed swordsman.

1 Like
#76

Quickcast’s 50% attribute is too high, makes it impossible to skip for any Wizard DPS builds. 100% uptime, even. It needs to go down to at least 30%.

Magic Arrow IS ridiculous. The gap between MA and the next best skill in World bosses is several magnitudes wide. This kills any sort of variety for world boss builds. MA needs to have a cooldown that makes sense.

However, they need to fix World Bosses so that they, you know, actually move. What makes MA so amazing is how bosses just won’t move out of it. With enough people hitting them, they bug out and don’t even fight back. If they moved around, used skills, and actually hurt players, MA would be a lot less effective.

They’re just HP sponges.

#77

So the problem might be with scaling then? As other classes seem that get unviable fast because of scaling cough* pyro cough*.

#78

I think that statements interesting.
All the time i see party recruits looking for Cleric2, Chrono, Pelt, Archer, Linker.
Wiz3Ele3WL is the only specific build I’ve ever seen requested for a grinding party. I think that speaks for itself.

#79

The problem with pyro is not about scaling compared to ele. In fact, pyro has the best scaling in wizard tree.

It’s because pyro take forever to kill a mobs even though their total damage is higher. Others can either steal the mob, or move to gather more mobs while pyro is waiting for that bunch of mobs to die.

But with kToS hell breath +50% fire damage buff, pyro MAY become viable again (wiz 3 pyro 3 or wiz pyro 3 ele 3).

The way to allow more variety in wizard class is as stated by someone here, make more combos between class that scale with damage. For example, if cryo 2 and ele 2 can combo to increase their spell damage, or pyro’s spell will tick faster with ele 2, or even by reverting the linker’s nerf, people will have more selection than just wiz 3.

Yes, that stated how not viable other wiz DPS class is. You need to have 7 fixed rank just to be viable. Making Wiz 3 Ele 3 Warlock not viable as well will not save the other classes.

For support wizard class, they are viable just by having chrono 3, even if cryo 3 chrono 3 is actually much better.

1 Like
#80

Actually since most parties look for a chrono or linker they already have the Wiz slot filled for exp bonus, so I’m not sure if that proves other wiz builds arent as viable DPS or if they’re the best DPS or just the best at grinding out mobs.