And people will just avoid going wizard 3. You still get part of the magic damage increase by getting the “arcane knowledge” to level 5 - and given the lack of useful abilities at wiz 1, there will be no issue getting it - and just switch to pyro or cryo for their full bonus (stacking with the new ability) along with their useful skills.
They may go wiz 2 if they need surespell, at most. Essentially wasting a rank in doing so.
Quick Cast is nice, but that’s it. It isn’t something worth spending one or two ranks, without its current attribute. Let alone a nerfed version.
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Surespell doesn’t guard against CC, just damage during spell casting… so Quick Cast is nice if you want to perform a spell with less interruption time due to potential CC. It’s probably a really good spell for PvP, but since I don’t PvP I don’t know.
The changes I proposed would allows better choice diversity at lower ranks than just a few viable builds for damage.
In fact, I probably overdid it a little with some of the changes proposed… but the general idea is to make the other choices have more weight than their current implementation.
These are some neat ideas dude. Under pyro, there should be an attribute that prevents other players from moving fireball as well. It really contributes to a loss of dps in parties.
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Honestly I was thinking of making it so when one would hit Elementalist, the Explosion passive SHOULD be a 100% (Or 50% with +10% incriments) passive, and should boast up Fire damage by (Let’s say 30%).
This way, Pyro would still stay relevant because it meshes with Elementalist’s kit: In this case both raw damage and focusing on Ele’s jack-of-all-trades spell casting and would coax more people into making a Ele based Pyro. The drawback being slower charge times, but the fire aspects would be quite strong.
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That works too. The current implementation of the passive if just terrible and I was thinking of a better version of it ^o.o^
That’s the problem - it doesn’t. It would just make pyro and cryo outright better. If you get wiz1->pyro/cryo you still get a third of the increased magic damage and you can add the full pyro/cryo bonus to that. Gaining many attack spells in doing so, spells that are powered by both bonuses, by the way. And if they go ele they even get the respective pyro/cryo attributes. How are wizards even supposed to compete with all those stacked buffs and many more spells available? They can’t.
What people aren’t considering is that any rank spent in wizard advancements is a rank you could have spent in some other class that gains actual attack spells instead. Yeah, wizard 2 and 3 make some aspect of casting more comfortable…but comfort alone doesn’t warrant spending multiple ranks.
Outright nerfing the attribute and/or shifting it to the first ranks is a surefire formula to make the latter ranks useless. Either those ranks get something to make up for it, or they just can’t be worthwhile.
By the way, i wouldn’t make those damage bonuses that the different classes would get a kind of stackable bonuses. Just make skills use the better one (it would also solve part of the issue mentioned above).
Why would someone planning a Dark Elemental build go into Pyro as opposed to Wiz C2/C3, Linker and/or Thaum? The +30% Fire Damage buff wouldn’t do anything for them in later ranks unless they’re going Dark and Fire Elemental, but then they would have to divide their circle choices on future ranks that may have those abilities in separate classes.
The R2 abilities on their own won’t scale very well for higher content… so why pick Pyro for the +30% damage if you’re not using Fire skills in higher ranks of a build?
Cryo isn’t a bad pick for a party buff, but only really if you have effective means of freezing often to warrent the Frozen and Chilled debuffs. For general mobbing, you’ll probably get more out of Linker instead. And Elementalist can work on its own, but would work better with Pyro C1/C2 and/or Cryo C1/C2 for certain situations.
You keep saying Wiz C3 isn’t worth picking with these changes, but IT IS for later ranked damaging abilitis that are not Fire or Ice. It is worth picking if you have high cast times for spells and want them shortened.
I’ve already explained how Quick Cast can be better than Surespell in situations where you can’t count on Surespell due to enemy CC. That makes Wiz C3 remain useful, especially for support builds or any build that has cast times that lock the character in casting animation for anything higher than 2 seconds.
With the current implementation of abilities, the “optimal” Wizard damage builds are:
- Wiz C3 / Ele C3 / WL
- Wiz C3 / Linker C2 / Necro C2
- Wiz C3 / Pyro C3 / WL (strictly for mobs weak to Fire Damage, and no certainty for usefulness when mob resistance becomes really high)
- Wiz C1 / Pyro C2 / Thaum C2 / Wiz C3 (strictly for mobs weak to Fire Damage. Thaum increases base damage of Fire abilities keeping them relevant for a bit longer, but no Linker to make some Thaum skills more effective… one could maybe sacrifie 1 rank of Pyro for Linker C1, but you sacrifice Fireball ticks and Flame Ground duration time to do so)
With the changes proposed to make Wiz damage buff separate and available at C1 with growth up to C3, as well as changes to make Pyro, Cryo and Ele, the amount of potential optimal damaging builds increases.
- Wiz C2 / Linker C3 / Necro C2 ( Sacrifices 10% extra damage for +2 linked targets and Linker C3 utility, potentially optimizing damage in party )
- Wiz C3 / Link C2 / Necro C2 ( More damage, better off at solo than the above build. Also gets Quick Cast )
- Wiz C2 / Pyro C2 / Thaum C2 / Ele C1 ( Mob destruction. Great in grind parties and solo grind )
- Wiz C3 / Cryo C3 / Ele C1 ( Ice Blast spammer. Chugs potions like crazy. Offers Chilled debuff for the party for Boss encounters, and CC. Good single-target dps/burst if Mana can be managed properly )
- Wiz C3 / Pyro C2 / Thaum C2 ( High Fire Damage for enemies weak to Fire. Doesn’t have Ele attribute to do more damage to surrounding mobs, but better suited for Bossing due to Quick Cast and +10% damage.)
- Wiz C2 / Cryo C1 / Ele C3 / WL (Loses out on 10% Damage to all skills by going Cryo C1 as opposed to Wiz C3, but gains Chilled Debuff that can sometimes be applied to the target(s) to increase their damage received by 15% for a period of time.)
- Wiz C3 / Ele C3 / WL (Still a good pick for high damage)
- Wiz C3 / Ele C3 / Cryo C1 (Good pick if one prioritizes Chilled debuff to enhance the damage the enemies receives from other party members. Better for parties than Wz C3 / Ele C3 / WL if the other party members do reasonable dps)
- Wiz C2 / Cryo C1 / Ele C3 / WL (-10% Magic damage an no QC, but gains Chilled debuff possibility and WL abilities making them more well rounded for either Solo or Parties while also retaining reasonably-high damage).
There’s more that could be used. These are just some examples of combinations that would be opened up by the changes proposed ^o.o^
So you can just reroll to the next OP build every time they rebalance some skills deemed too strong?
Those skills were deemed too strong, now they got rebalanced. If you made the class because you liked it, you will still like it. If you made it cause it was OP in some contexts, well, deal with it, cause it was just a matter of time.
Well, seens like you dont have the same way of thinking when they talk about a nerf for the class you play
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So the quick cast portion of quickcast worth nothing now? I think its still worth going wiz 3 for that 1/2 cast time with 100% uptime even if the attribute given to the new arcane knowledge for those who pick elementalist, necro, or rc
those self fish ppl
only think about them self also don’t give a fk about the others
Lol I know a perfect meme for this
Freeze only seems to boost AAs, not skills. Or at least not Gravity Pole
Lol Thaumaturge is going to be extinct with this…
I would rather keep wiz3 untouched and do it like how Diablo2 does with its skills, each and every skill will add to the damage or give additional effects to a higher end skill.
Tagging additional effects on class synergy is another way, like if you are pyro C3 and cast elementalist’s meteor, it will create an additional flame ground effect when the meteor hits. Or when you are cryo3 with necro build, your Shoggoth gains a chill aura that increases ice damage by 15% and monsters nearby gain a -20% slow.
Do things like for archer tree if go quarrel shooter + sapper. The archer can combine Deploy Pavise + stake stockades to build a spiked pavise. Falconer gets their pet to carry broom trap which hits flying enemies.
This encourages more build diversity than just straight up damage. Give incentives for players who want to spec into other builds rather than just pure damage. Like this every build will be really fun as each class can combine their skills with another class to form something more powerful. It also removes the need to spec specific circles just to cater to a need.
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Unless we have a lot of those combinations, just 1 or 2 won’t work. For example cryo has an attribute that increase lightning damage by 30% on frozen enemy, and ele has a lightning spell, and you still don’t see any cryo-ele combination, because those forced synergy are not reliable.
Also, QS + sapper already have a combo, pavise + punji stake = really surprised damage 
But you are the one who first compared broom trap, and now it’s my fault that I’m compared sapper2 and ele3. Nice. They kinda have some similarities though, which is people do go up all the way to those ranks just for a specific skill. For sapper2 it’s broom trap, for ele3 it’s front cloud.
And in this case, it is quick cast for wiz3. I’m not saying that it does not deserve a nerf or whatsoever. My own stance so far is that if you are to nerf the main reason/skill that a person waste 2 or 3 ranks for, you better allow them to change their ranks or at least compensate with other buffs from other skills. Wiz3 at the moment have NOTHING to compensate for. At least sapper2 or ele3 have other skills which they can buff.
It’s just a simple statement. You buff something, give them a choice to rechoose their ranks. But what certain people read and interpret is w3w fk care other class w3w my class op w3w I’m so smart you get out of here.
Regarding the 2h thing, that’s a problem that a lot of classes have now that makes 2h weapons such as nows and staves weak sadly.
Yes we need more of those combinations, a lot more. Hopefully IMC can pay heed to this and improve on it. It also took D2 like 9 versions??? to get those +%dmg combination skills.
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The extra damage to party members can be an attribute available at Thaum somewhere instead of being at Wiz C1. Was just thinking of a way for the buff to contribute to not just the Wizard.
The ideas I’ve proposed were strictly meant for opening up more build paths for Wizard dps instead of Wizards being forced into Wiz C3 for optimal damage.
I’m not against your idea of additional effects, but I do think the Quick Cast attribute should be changed into a buff available at Wiz C1 and upgradeable.
If we look at other C3 abilities compared to C1 and C2 of the base class, you notice that the majority of the time C3 is chosen to improve upon the earlier abilities.
If I were to rank the current usefulness of base class C3 compared to C2, it would be the following:
Cleric
Swordsman
Wizard
Archer
Archer C2 to C3 is really not a big improvement on Kneeling Shot if you get QS C3 [and you likely will get QS C3 if you go for Kneeling Shot] unless you’re getting it for more Range to AA. The extra ability in Archer C3 is outclassed by R5+ multi-hit abilities, though its still “okay” for support builds with suboptimal dps. Only Multishot improvement seems to be worth it for going C3 since it can be increased with attribute damage, hits many times and has mini-AoE which works well with Falconer Circling. Archer C3 is optional and is mostly taken for the improvements on its Archer C1 / C2 abilities.
Cleric C2 to C3 Offers 5 more heal tiles, stronger Safety Zone, more Cure ticks and a niche ability that may never see effective use unless Boss AI becomes smarter. Cleric C3 is optional and is mostly taken for the imporvements on its Cleric C1 abilities.
Swordsman C2 to C3 improves upon Restrain a lot and adds an ability that scales with bleeding, but it’s better to just go Sword C1 > Highlander C3 than use two ranks for Sword C3 for the bleed ability. There MIGHT be a use for the Sword C3 ability if one goes Sword C3 > Highlander C2 > Barb C1 > Shinobi for Bosses, assuming we get the kToS buff. You could then inflict bleed with Cross-cut, get Cleave buff, Bunshin and spam Double Cut with your clones but this skill would only work well with a very specific/niche build and it’s not certain if its better than its Hoplite C2 / Doppel C1 / Shinobi counterbuild. Could replace Barb C1 with Doppel C1 and the same statement would apply. Swordsman that go C3 typically do so for Restrain and Pain Barrier upgrades. Swordsman C3 is optional and is usually taken for its improvements on its C1 / C2 abilities.
It’s not like Wizard can’t be treated the same way with upgrades. Making them have an upgradeable damage buff available at C1 that upgrades to C3 imo works well. Sleep and Surespell also get improvements, and Quick Cast has utility for keeping a Wizard mobile which seems potentially good for future encounters where bosses are much smarter, and also seems good for PvP. Wiz C3 wouldn’t be mandatory for damaging builds, but would still be very beneficial for those that have invested into it.
Just remove reflect shield, that skill is useless and waste a buff slot
We only ask for a nerf (20-30% instead of 50%) and if 20-30% bonus damage + 100% uptime isn’t enough for them, then they can go fck themselves really, that’s disgusting.
As a wise man once said " If you made the class because you liked it, you will still like it. If you made it cause it was OP in some contexts, well, deal with it, cause it was just a matter of time. " 
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At least other base classes get increased damaged or utility that is actually useful unlike wiz3 who people only go for quick cast. No one ever goes for wiz3 because "yay magic missile is so awesome)
Well it’s not like anyone actually made a wiz3 just because they like being a wiz3. People choose wiz3 because it was a practical choice to increase their damage.
But some genius thinks that changing it to 10% is still ok. And yes, fcking themselves is disgusting.