Why you can’t? You can go wiz 3 pyro 3, you just don’t want to because options like ele or kino would be much better. No the increase must be 50% across board. Hell breath won’t change anything since it boosts only 1 skill, 1 fire skill at that, while QC boost everything and future-proofed too, it can boost rank 8 classes, it can boost hidden classes. There’s no way to compete with it unless it is the same 50% across board.
You say that you’ve got to compare the whole class build, and yet keep ignoring that if you weren’t getting wizard 3, you would get some other class and its related skills instead. And that if those choices were just better - or the reasons to get wizards were worse - there would be no reasons to do so.
As far as things go, if all you do is a straight nerf, you effectively cut down any reason to go wizard 3.
I would say one of the major reasons is that the classes are conveniently placed as far as ranks go. If you were to go elementalist by pyro or cryo, you would miss their last rank (and with it, some rather nice skills, especially considering the kToS buffs).
If you were to get their last rank, you would stifle your progression by getting elementalist (since you would get it at a latter rank than the one it was balanced for).
Likewise, once you max elementalist, you either go warlock or featherfoot, as those are the appropriate classes for that rank. Warlock is just the better choice for now.
And indeed, going wizard 3 does provide the convenient abilities to cast faster and to not have your spells stopped by normal damage, and likely on purpose, i would guess, seeing as most of those elementalist skills do suffer from high cast times and, unless you get surespell, from being interrupted. The bonus damage does help too, though. You won’t have many offensive skills available, but at least they get to deal a good damage while they’re down. And givens the cooldowns of most of those, it helps. Frost Cloud is an outlier in that regard, mind you. Probably as a reward for getting to rank 3.
That such a progression works well seems more like a deliberate choice than anything, though.
If anything, the only issue i see is that other completely offensive-oriented wizard class combinations aren’t as good. And that as far as balance goes, having high int isn’t as required as it should logically be for dps builds, but that hasn’t much to do with this discussion.
No one has been able to provide a decent alternative that wouldn’t make getting further wizards rank other than the first a complete waste, though.
In Swordies case, some (level x) scalings wouldn’t be bad. If Gung-Ho scaled with levels, it’d stay relevant but not quite strong either. Like it’ have an artifical % plus, but it wouldn’t be a +50% but depending on level.
Also it’s worth saying that the state of the game itself also contributes to the predicament of the Wizard3 supremacy. For Pyro’s progression: Usually there’s really only Linker and Elementalist due to how Pyro works in tandem with each other. Cryo does with with Pyro but let’s not get too technical. In the case of Wizard C3, it can literally go any path it wants as it’s unrestricted and the Magic damage +50% applies to literally any class in some fashion (Even Linkers, though they’re not DPSers). Say if Pyro had more augmentation or classes that blended well with it, there’d be more incentive and diversity in building a Pyro.
That said, more classes need to take example off of this. Base Swordsman is a good example that would loooove something that’d contribute to higher up classes (Shinobi tried this but it ends up wonky) , but I don’t necessarily find this as a problem: More of a lapse of game design.
It doesn’t make sense getting a rank 2 class in the 4 to 6 ranks to start with, since their skills won’t be as strong as the ones that proper “4 to 6” classes will give instead. But neither does make sense talking about a 50% bonus across board, since you’re already getting additional offensive skills such a bonus would work with. That would make such a choice straight better, rather than competing.
It may be a bigger bonus, but limited in some way (like the one hell’s breath gives, or better, depending on what fire spells future classes shall get). Or they could even give passive attributes on pyro or cryo that boost fire/ice damage by a percentage once they get an high enough rank (provided they spent 2 or 3 ranks on it, i would add).
So tell me exactly why you think a rank 3 skill that can boost all rank 4-5-6-7-8 skills by 50% all the time, regardless of build, is making sense to you, while picking rank 2 class at rank 4 isn’t? Show me any, I mean literally any skill of any classes in any tree, rank 4-5-6-7-8 skill that is comparable to that +50% with 100% uptime.
This is exactly why QC need to be nerfed. It kills all balances, it spoils people with damage so much that they ignore all options that are not natural progression with QC.
And then people come and say “just give other classes more scaling damage”. Oh yeah, while it makes sense for other trees, giving other wizard DPS more scaling damage would worsen the situation even more, because you know what, those new scaling damage will also be boosted by 50% of QC. Tell me how you balance that?
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For the same reason archers have a passive from rank 1 that buffs and will buff EVERY damn rank he gets for 100% when hitting flying mobs and ignoring 25% of armor from everyone. Both are DPS classes and these things are needed.
are you an idiot ?
fly mobs are rare at high level maps, most of high level bosses are ground target
also players in pvp are ground target
and 25% armor pen ?
look at the armor from mobs and player is that a big one like very one have like 1000 def or 2000 ?, 25% is only equal around 100 dmg boost which not even equal an 5% damage boost
and archer have size penalty so it’s fk up the armor pen passive from xbow
Lol.
First, the 100% flying damage buff locks you to use bow. Check how many classes of archer use bow. That’s right, fletcher and that’s it, and even then it only works on flying enemy, which is at most what? 1/3 of the time?
Second, the 25% ignore armor is a percentage chance to trigger, on ONE attack.
Please use a better argument
Second, the 25% ignore armor is a percentage chance to trigger, on ONE attack.
Nope, it is ignore 25% of armor, not 25% chance to ignore armor.
the problem is physical defense from mobs/boss or even player always at tiny amount so the dmg boost from ignore only boost dmg by a little
and if someone told me that it help alot, i laugh at them 
I know, I was merely pointing out how the attribute works.
Also, the dmg boost is only small if you have no attributes/modifiers on your skills and you are facing a low def target.
Lets say for example, you fight against a boss like Rexiphier.
743 Def
Lets say you have around 1200 patk, 0 elemental attack, and using lvl 10 Magic Arrow for example, which is 1139 base damage. Assume 50% attributes.
Without 25% armor ignore from the attribute, your non-crit damage will be (1200+1139-743)*1.5 = 2394
With 25% armor ignore, that changes to:
[1200+1139-(743*0.75)]*1.5 = 2673
That is actually a 11.65% damage increase, which is not exactly tiny.
Of course, this attribute is weaker vs targets with less armor, but you get the point.
VS Red Truffles in Almeth for example, you are reducing only 60~ def using that 25% armor ignore, which is 90~ more damage per hit.
Just think of it as: every point of armor you reduce, you basically have that much more patk.
eh what? fletcher uses xbow+dagger
EVERY archer uses bow vs flying, its called weapon swap. tt
Right, I guess the text “defense ignore” that pops up occasionally when I play my archer must be a lie
Eh what? All SR skills require xbow + pistol, all musketeer skills require musket, all cannoneer skills require cannon, rogue back stab requires xbow + dagger
Unless you switch to bow just to auto attack and never use skills, there’s no weapon swap for those classes (coincidentally, those are all rank 7 classes except fletcher)
Right, I guess the text “defense ignore” that pops up occasionally when I play my archer must be a lie
The description for One-handed Bow Mastery: Ignore Defense clearly says:
Ignores 5% of an enemy’s defense per attribute level when attacking with a [One-handed Bow]
So unless there was a typo there (which is not my problem) then yes, it indicates that every hit will ignore 25% of the target’s defense, and not a “chance to ignore defense”.
EDIT:
I just took my lvl 174 QS3 out to Fedimian Suburbs and took well over 300 shots. Not once did I see the words “defense ignore” pop up. Kindly show proof of this, thanks.
[quote=“thailehuy, post:386, topic:308268, full:true”]
So tell me exactly why you think a rank 3 skill that can boost all rank 4-5-6-7-8 skills by 50% all the time, regardless of build, is making sense to you, while picking rank 2 class at rank 4 isn’t? [/quote]
You don’t get a rank 2 class at rank 4 because you get better, actual rank 4 classes instead. Again, opportunity costs.
And spending three ranks to get a skill that empowers other skills damage makes sense once you realize that you are getting a single decent spell to use that with over three ranks. Whereas going pyro would have provided with a wider repertoire of magics.
And by the way, it doesn’t boosts “all rank 4-5-6-7-8 skills by 50% all the time, regardless of build”. Non-damage effect aren’t affected, after all. Still a pretty good effect, but no need to make it seem stronger than already is.
No, that’s why you think it should be nerfed. Other people don’t necessarily agree.
There aren’t, but a fair comparison would be on the 3 ranks on a whole. In that regard, how many other classes that are actually used and are depicted as offensive-type ends up getting a single good damaging skill over 3 ranks?
They could be tied to higher ranks of low-tiered classes (pyromancers and cryomancers having bonuses with fire and ice does make sense, after all). It could even be split over multiple attributes, available at different higher ranks. Like a “Fire Mastery” at rank 4 that raises fire damage by 30% and an “Advanced Fire Mastery” that gives a further 30% at rank 7, for example. Both requiring pyro 3 as a prerequisite, obviously.
While you could potentially do a wizard 3/pyro 3 combination, those pyro skills would still be balanced over them being lower rank skills, so it shouldn’t pose particular issues.
There could also be attributes like the one elementalists get, related to previous classes.
Or there could be bonuses that aren’t cumulable with quick cast damage attribute, but that would be boring compared to the choices above.
It’s 2 ranks actually, since you don’t get to choose rank 1. And if you want to list class, here goes:
- Scout: get split shot at rank 6
- Rogue: back stab
- Monk: double punch
- Cataphract: rush (I admit that earthwave and doom spike is good at low level, but once mobs HP reach 100k they are useless)
- Heck, swordman c3: double slash (and it’s not even good lol)
- Doppel: cyclone
- Druid: canivory
And note that all those classes don’t have +50% damage buff.
And how’s that stopping QC boost rank 7-8 classes to ridiculous level again?
The correct text is “Armor Penetration”, sorry about that.
The chance, as you might have guessed, is quite low, but I got lucky
You can see the video here
The interaction, I don’t know, but archer class can peel off target defense with each attack (10% per attack up to 50% I think) so I guess the effect is granting a chance to fully peel off target defense with 1 shot. Anyway, don’t trust the game text.
Thanks for the video.
So I guess the mastery is bugged or wrongly worded, because the description does not match the effect based on your video. I will have to actually test it against def values from the database to see if it actually does what the description says.
Just to check, what equipment were you using? which crossbow/bracelets etc. I certainly don’t recall seeing that pop-up much (or at least don’t pay too much attention to it).
I’ll do some solo rush runs on my QS3 to see if I can get the same thing to show up.
You still have it, though. If wizard rank 1 skills were even remotely decent (even for their rank) one could choose to get them at high levels.
Not an offensive class (it’s green).
Vendetta does get used, though. And capture, too. Aside from that, they do get some other skills that help increasing damage (in the form of critical chance and a bonus while attacking from behind). In that regard, it could be considered similar, indeed.
That’s not the only good damaging skill they’ve got, just the one you can spam better (having a 0s cooldown helps in that regard). One-inch punch is pretty good too. And they’ve got a chance of percentage-based strike damage bonuses in kToS, anyway.
Ehr, even magic missile would be considered useless with that sort of high standards. As well as, like, half the skills of the game.
That’s why i said “that are actually used”. No one bothers going swordman c3.
And Zucken, Redel, sometimes Zornhau. The most used builds do use those other skills too. And we lack the last rank, anyway.
Everyone always complains that dps swordman classes aren’t good enough, though. So getting them as an example doesn’t make much sense. Unless you mean that wizards should be as bad too.
Of which we lack a third rank, yet.
I can’t see anything ridiculous to start with. Unlike you, i do see the opportunity costs involved in such a choice. They just happen to be skewed too much toward the wizard 3 choice right now. And indeed, they’re trying to fix it with the korean patches.
If Pyro offered bonuses such as the ones i’ve mentioned above, you could specialize as a fire caster and profit from that, provided that future classes will indeed offer fire-elemental spells to do so. Or go for the general route with quick cast and all-around good spells (but fire spells that wouldn’t be as good as if you had gone for the pyromancer route). Same applies to ice spells and cryo, for a certain extent.
And while you could go wiz3/pyro3…what would be point of that be? Most of that damage increase would go to low-ranked spells. Sure, a couple of spells from still-unreleased ranks may end up being too powerful in their tests, but if that’s the case…they can just make it so those bonuses aren’t cumulable. Problem solved, before it even becomes an actual one.
vendetta got use ? oh wow nice knowledge
it’s one of the most useless skill that no one even bother put 1 point in
capture ? 3 mins cd
It’s just a catapult crossbow (I try to use a weak one so that I don’t have to search for mobs) and zachariel bangle + bearkaras bracelet. I have absolutely nothing special in my equipment. Yes, the chance is very low, I would say as low as 1-3%
Like I said, you don’t choose rank 1, and besides cleric all rank 1 are useless.
Vendetta is as good as destroying tree root crystal, crit chance increase from sneak hit is not that great since it only works from behind. And rogues are melee mind you that. Even then backstab damage is still mediocre at most (20k from behind, laughable)
QC is also not the only good skills wizard get, you point? Sleep, surespell, earth quake, lethargy are all good in utility. You ask for good offensive skills, one inch punch is an offensive skill, but not a good one.
Range + instant cast + easy targeting vs melee + charge + low damage. I’ll give you my earthwave, give me your magic missle, really, I would take that rank 3 skill over my rank 6 any day.
Lol, guess I’m no one then. Sword 3 cata 3 is a thing, you know.
And why not? Why exactly do you think wizard should be better than swordman, or any other classes?
They are trying to fix pyro, not wizard c3. Why? Because pyro is not good end game. That has nothing to do with opportunity cost or sort. People want to pick the strongest build.
The only reason pyro isn’t picked because it is weaker than ele or kino couple with wiz 3 build.
Once they buff pyro, wizard can go
- Wiz 3 ele 3 - X
- Wiz 3 pyro 3 - X
- Wiz 3 cryo kino rune - X
And many more. You see the pattern?
The +50% is already future proofed. It covers everything, EVERYTHING.