Thoughts on Radical Shift (1/10th Previous Prices) on Market [7+ Years of being an ACTIVE RO Player]


#1

This was a reply to another thread, but I felt that it deserved its own topic since there are a lot of other RO vets here besides me, so yeah~

I played RO for many, many years. Without a doubt, one of its aspects that was absolutely terrible that made the game extremely unappealing for many new players was how terrible the market was for long stretches of time. You pretty much had to farm 1/10,000 drop rate cards, not any card mind you, you’d have to research the market as a new player… Then after farming that particular monster, with starting gear, you’d then have to spend a fair time trying to sell said card…yeah, pretty bad. Later on you could farm consumbles used for certain skills of other classes, but even that was kind of iffy and negated a huge chunk of the game’s drop system. For reference, this is someone who made a lot of her money from farming about 30 Teddy Bear Cards when Nameless Island came out (I played on Loki of iRO).

Look, I liked many things about RO, but there are a LOT of areas that were very poor about the game. In-fact, RO was an incomplete game and remained so. During release, it was attacked by hackers early on and it caused a lot of strife within the company and many core staff had to quit. The game was barely a shadow of what they had intended and it really did and does show. RO has a lot of good points that made it through though (the longest mmo I was involved with, 7+ years of active play), but the market? Absolutely not one of them.

With this recent change, I understand that they likely want to lower silver generation, but, 1/10th of prices is very radical any way you look at it. I would of at least moved gradually and examined the effect with each gradual shift. Right now the marketplace is pretty much destroyed at the momment and will likely remain so for a good while. Not exactly the smartest move for a beta test. I’m really not sure what test data they can get from crashing a market that is of practical value. Shifting prices to 1/10th their profit value after a market has already been established on previous prices has little to no relataibility to if the prices were 1/10th their value from the beginning. So yeah, extremely poor choice no matter how you look at it in my opinion.

Looking at the prices though, I’m not sure how someone can reasonably make use of upgrading items and attributes and such at 1/10th of their previous sell value. Seeing as the Beta Test rates are 3x value for exp, even spending more time grinding compared to now, I don’t see enough money coming in with the new prices to make use of all the game’s features to build your character up. Opting to use pots alone seems like it would take up all your funds. I think 1/2 their previous value would of been a more worthwhile thing to test, and if inflation looked to still be kind of high with what they had in mind, to then try 1/3rd. But yeah, that’s my feedback on it. o/

Edit: To add a bit of clarity, I bring up RO because an extremely low return on drops via npc is a model RO used. I see some RO fans instantly defending this when it was one of the poorest features of RO. Which let me give you some context, botting was INSANE on RO and remained a constant problem for the game which brought inflation to ridiculous levels. Bot farmers love a game where making money is extremely tedious because the demand for in-game currency from players becomes extremely high. If people buy from botters, they will keep botting. If people have huge demand for silver with tedious complicated hurdles in-game making it difficult for them to gain, a large portion of those players will turn to buying silver from botters.

Now, this can be mitigated some by allowing players to sell Cash Shop items on market, but for Cash Shop items to compete with Bot Rates, they typically have to be on the pay to win side of things which is a whole other slew of problems. Long story short, it isn’t a pretty road to go down if you look at RO’s (or MMOs in general) history.


#2

Wouldnt this encourage people to put more items on the marketplace rather than vendor them though? I think this change was a way to discourage botting tbh, mobs that drop items that can vendor for huge amounts of silver would end up being a botting problem. Be good if the could make decent money generation for something like running the missions that you get from the second big town.

Try and embrace the changes and see if u can survive in this enviroment rather than complaining about it. Adapt a little :smile:


#3

Myeah this has nothing to do with adepting, because its just a fact right now that te return/earn rate of silver is way to low on most classes to be able to progress in the game correctly. Even grinding mobs doesn’t yield enough silver to cover the costs of grinding the mob. The lowering of the selling price isn’t a problem in itself, but the repair price bug in combination with this is, also some gear has little to no value even when you try to vendor it.


#4

Complaining and giving criticism within feedback are a bit different. Maybe you actually disagree and aren’t just white knighting a poor choice from IMC Games (which I doubt), but even if you do, it doesn’t invalidate my feedback. Also, embracing things like a sheep is about the most moronic thing you can tell to anyone. I will examine a change, see its effects, and make a critical analisys of it. Defending a poor action by a company can only potentially hurt them and the game mind you, so I’d be careful about just “embracing” changes and assuming anything they do is good since I assure you many things they will “try” will end up being bad, just as many things will also be good. You use your brain, rather than just embracing things, to seperate the bad from the good. Nothing should be exempt from skepticism and critical thought; not government, religion, organizations, and beliefs in general.

As for botting, it will be attempted regardless. It may be attempted more if players have difficulty affording a fair extent of the game’s features. Players may also be more willing to buy silver from bots when the game goes live if they percieve the core money making mechanics in the game to be inadequate. I also think a “fix” to botting that compromises the player is a poor fix.


#5

1/10th of silver injection into the economy through vending…

Won’t this actually reduce the amount of items bought from the marketplace by players?

This actually seems more painful.

I mean, Player A vends an item, pays a censoredlol amount of silver to repair his equipment…

I see Player A losing more money than making it. Now I think it’s safe to assume that a great amount of players might end up like Player A… and what if they all turn to the marketplace? It’ll be overflooded…

Won’t these changes actually create an economic deflation but also at the same time “Degenerate” silver rather than “Generating” it?

Riot! :cry:


#6

No, this change will encourage botting, as it’s much easier to generate money by afking and not spending more time grinding the same thing.

People tends to become lazy if something is too hard, and search for an automated solution. That’s how your computer is developed.


#7

Uhh… This doesn’t discourage botting at al - if anything, it encourages it. what do you think happens when people can’t make money to progress on even the most basic stuff (like attributes) by using their avaiable time to farm? Right, they bot 24/7. Decreasing the income of silver does not affect only bots, it affects everyone - so that point is completely moot.

Moreover, no, this does not encourage people to list things on the market place. Do you really think you’re gonna be able to sell this common weapon that npcs for 2k, for 10k+ on the market? No, because when you cut the income of silver to 1/10, that also happens to market prices. Of course, that’s assuming you don’t make such a move on an already estabilished economy where certain players had plenty of time to farm at 10x efficiency than you can if you log in right now and try it. Which brings us to OP’s point: It’s what they just did.

Hf leveling your attributes - as if the waiting time a la mobile game they attached to them wasn’t bad enough already.


#8

I have to agree that this seems like a poor decision.

You don’t make things more tedious to combat botters. Tedium is what creates botters in the first place. Make things more tedious and that’s when the people already botting start to thrive.

Broad sweeping changes are rarely a good thing. Seems like the better response would be to analyze what the botters farm and maybe change mob characteristics or specific drop rates or perhaps sell rates for specific items.

Nor will this strengthen the in game economy because it already has some severe money sinks. Companions and item upgrading are going to be a lot more difficult now and prices on the market are going to go down for some things and way up for others.


#9

I don’t think this decision had anything to do with botters at all. It is a closed beta with a wipe and they don’t seem concerned about those at all - considering the game has no form of anti-hacking or anti-cheating. Hell, you can literally cheat engine this game - the most basic form of hacking.


#10

Hello ;

as a long time player , i can tell you that change was very bad , in a lot of way ;

they did not warned people before the patch so they can sell their stuff to the NPC and don’t feel disgusted when they log in later ;

basically i had around 800k silver of gear i did farm in my bank , waiting for the market to be back , i log in after the patch and bam , i only have 80k as gear value in my bank … 10hours playing for nothing .

i understand there should be change and stuff , it is a closed beta , hardcore , grind , blablabla , ok , but 1/10 rate ? come on … and without warning people before … i feel like they don’t really care about player when i see that kind of nonsense shift , they just make money 10 times harder to get in 1 night … i can’t explain you properly in english how i feel right now but i’m not happy about that " radical shift " , 1/5 would have been enough , considering how much silver you got to spent in everything in this game …

i really think this change will discourage player and encourage " bug exploit " , bot , agressive people on farming spot , etc …

really , it was a bad bad change , please do something devs , and fast , people can’t pay 35000 silver each time they need to repair when they sell the gear they get at 3k .

and not everyone want to spend their lives in the same spot or at the market >.>


#11

Probably a bug. Cool down people. No game changes economy with a factor of 10 for no reason. Also what is this 1/10? The equip that was showing npc price of 3.9k yesterday is showing 1.3k. Looks like 1/3 to me.


#12

this change actually do encourage botting. the inflation is way too high.


#13

I don’t believe it’s a bug as they only said the repair cost is one. It may differ on the level of the item if that’s the case for you. I have many items that were at 30k, now at 2.7k. Likewise, I have items that were 18k being 1.8k now.


#14

also have to add that now , squire will get everyone’s else money , they will make billions in no time , when other player will spend most of their money into … other squire’s service :confused:

that’s cool that squire get some attention etc … but it’s obvious that the few current squire on the game will make a tons of money in no time and without any work …

please do something equal for all players , you don’t except new player / low level to raise well in these conditions right ? they will go to miner’s village … miner’s village gear sell at the same value as before so afk people will get the same amount of money as before when active player will get less …

as i say please make something equal .


#15

Maybe they are noticing that high level equipment is upsetting the silver balance of the lower level economies so they nerfed the higher level silver price. It would make sense. 18k for a single drop at high level is quite a bit.


#16

The issue is silver generation demand the higher you get becomes greater and greater. Upgrading gear becomes much more expensive, as does higher ranked skill attributes. Many of these 120, 150 players saying they hav 2 million silver likely haven’t been investing much of it in attributes or gear upgrades of their level which would easily eat 2 million silver instantly.

I really don’t see how higher leveled players who don’t already have tons of silver saved up will be able to afford maintaining attribute increases and gear upgrades. Which, I don’t think anyone is in the 200+ bracket yet. I don’t see anyone on the server being able to level attributes of rank 5 and 6 rank skills while keeping attributes of previous skills high enough to keep them relevant to their higher leveled gameplay.

The game seems built around the previous silver prices more or less which is why this change seems short sighted, especially for a closed beta.


#17

Presumably this is something that would balance with appropriate money sinks. Like attributes.

Bokor for example has attributes that start at 67k that give 1% chance bonuses.

If they wanted to lower the curve as levels increased I would understand but they aren’t doing that. Just a flat change to how much money is being produced.


#18

This drastic drop in the market value of items really wasn’t necessary. The devs are looking at the bots/soon-to-be gold farmers and are attempting to fix the situation. However, they are punishing them at the expense of the actual players.

Granted that the repair prices are a bug. The prices of other items aren’t. As a person who plays paladin, I am now torn between two choices. After spending some time out grinding in the field, I return to town and have to decide. Do I restock my items to use my abilities (Holy Powder for Blessing, Gyslotis for Sacrament, etc.) or do I repair my gear? And even then, after that decision is made, I have the problem of do I have enough money left over to teleport to the nearest statue? I have noticed the drastic increase in teleport prices (have you?)

Many other games have attempted to fix their economy through this method and all have failed. Subscription based and free to play games all have this situation. Perfect World, Aion, World of Warcraft, Final Fantasy 11 & 14 all have this issue. What you are attempting didn’t work in those games and it won’t work here.

You are attempting to regulate in automation, by restricting the prices on items when you should actively be going after those who are the problem. You zigged when you should’ve zagged.

I hope that anyone over at IMC, like @STAFF_J is reading all of these posts and takes it to heart. I would really hate to see this game fall before it even gets off the ground (out of beta.)


#19

So a MMO server economy should be viewed as something like a fully meritocratic closed dictatorship. It’s weird but that’s fine, it’s just an example.

This means that all the money this “country” produces stays in the “country”. The exception is paying NPCs, which completely makes money disappear. This is ESSENTIAL in a 100% closed economy. You must make money disappear or else you will create an economy where people accumulate money on absurd rates, what by itself makes market prices slowly go in a neverending upwards trend, and every month that passes the game gets unhealthier to newcomers. Thing is developers almost always try to correct this way to late and by extraordinarily dumb means, as repairs or warp prices. You need to cut by percentages, you need to tax.

This is simple, IMC. You put a % tax rate on market transactions. Be it buying and/or putting up to sell. Atlantica is a pretty old game wherein the market is almost 100% player-driven and it’s still healthy as hell, the exceptions being exploits, which you can fix on demand.

So, now, relating to the topic: you have a simple economy. You can’t let this economy go boom nor bubble. In other words, you can’t starve people from getting gold without cheating/exploiting the game and you also can’t let people naturally amass ridiculous amounts of gold (which WILL happen in anyway, it’s just a matter of how it’s accumulated, if by inertia, what’s bad, or by saving money). Now, with a taxing method, or basically absorbing money by %, you can even make people sell gear by 1000x times the price, the % tax will always be proportional to whatever level of money people have. This IS NOT a solution, it’s just a way to make it waaay easier to control and level the economy.

As for the botting problem, you have tons of ways to deal with it. You can lower the price of an item every time a player sells it to a NPC for a limited time. For an example: I have 10 wands of wonder I just dropped. Its base selling price is 1000 gold. First one sells for 1000g, second one for 950g, and it goes on, resetting after, I dunno, an hour. This is no problem to someone who drops something here and there, and a HUGE problem to someone who drops only the same thing all day long. This can hurt honest players, but in the end all it does is to put a brake on income. You can also make monster drops always bounce far away, so still hitting players can’t collect loot unless they walk up to it. Or even put a limit to how long a character can autoattack, ten minutes sounds good. If true, programmed bots one day arise, you deal with it then. You can also punish it.


#20

As a lv42 Priest,farm in church for 1h,got about 6000 coins,2 recipies,sevral material,1 ITEM(saled in vendor for 453 coins).
When I ask the blacksmith,he told me


Now Im driven into bankruptcy,and someone told me just go to the marketplace?Hope the IMC add the begger as a new job.