Tree of Savior Forum

This will answer (almost) all of your questions about the STR vs DEX debate (pvp not included)

General Discussion
#82

People keep saying landing a Crit with DEX is by chance, while it is true, the same goes for STR too. which they neglect to recognize.

STR adds P.atk and C.atk, but as you weight your stat, the more STR, the stronger the crit damage is, but the lower chance it will occur. if Landing a Crit with higher Optimal Dex is hard, the more it is harder for STR to landing Crits.

You can clearly see the difference of the two. STR plays bigger risk than DEX, if not properly calculated. if you place STR only to increase P.atk, then i suggest neglecting itā€¦ STR is all about P.atk + C.Atk (exclude block pen since itā€™s not damage relevant).

#83

You wonā€™t need so much base dex because finestra is free 150 dex.

320 dex is over kill like really :confused: unless you are on a lonely kirito road.

In party wise optimally if you are able to attain near 100% crit on no crit resist mobs itā€™s pretty much set as any more buff factor in ā€”> is basically over killing crit resist.

IMO theres not much point for a dragoon to get over 210 base dex unless you are a lonely soul. itā€™s kinda diminishing return. Dex at that rate at that moment.

Simply cause you can push out equipments with lv 8 / 9 gems instead and see how it goes at R9 with 440 str + 210dex (con 40-50 invested/70 total) with about 40k hp

Wasnā€™t really home the past few day busy with work.

For say you attain 95% crit rate. with 190 dex. and 100% on party buff even to crit resist monsters.

This 20 stats can give you can give you up to additional 40 str, which is effectively 40 crit damage and 40 *1.3 and 52 p attack.

95% is actually a extremely big number. the chances are to crit is nearly the same as 100% of course 100% would mean there is no risk of losing that 50% bonus + crit damage.

Where as 95% you will have a risk of losing 1 crit hit in every 20 hit.
That is seriously only happening in solo casesā€¦

If you are in party. There will be no difference and the one with 95% crit will outdo the one with 100% crit. So in short build according to your party and preference

#84

The maths Iā€™ve done comes to smth like 239 points invested in DEX and likeā€¦ahhh ā€¦ 120ā€™s IN STR ā€¦ is this overkill? XD I mean, I get 100% crit with monstrance ā€¦ 90% without if I remember well. ā€¦ alone ā€¦ Then quicken will overkill that but then I can just change to glad bands for example. . And im counting with 80 dex from eleganos wich is really hard o get actually.

#85

itā€™s way too over kill already. Just get a zalicia scroll to make up for it or ask your support to get itā€¦

Some where near 85% is actually optimal and you still can swap it out for glad bands or phada. at 230 dex. If you have no access to finestra itā€™s still understandable to invest 239 points (310 dex total ) E.g Dopple.

That saying if you still have 8 ellaganos after it. Itā€™s gonna be ultra over kill.
You must remember quicken and monstrance scale to the amount of crit rate / Dex you have. Just fyi as a dragoon you will have nearly 1.2k crit rate after quicken + monstance and before quicken itā€™s 919 ish crit rate. This is already 100% crit rate on 130 crit resist mobsā€¦

Chronos are almost everywhere by then. You wonā€™t really be soloing so much later on at 280 + due to the fact quest boss are by 1-2m hp.s +++++++

Well tbh if you are aiming this as a solo player and have trust issues or unable to find a party by all means.

Else itā€™s literally over kill

#86

Ahah :wink: makes sense to me ā€¦ well Iā€™ll do some maths and see how much I would need to have 100% only when I have quicken and monst then ā€¦ lets see ā€¦

Tought I canā€™t really properly calculate how much exact dex I would need to invest in order to have 100% on 120 resist mobs ( how much zalciai lowers if itā€™s me using it ? ) when I have monst and quicken as quicken is not in the spreadsheet ; ( ā€¦

I need 239 as Iā€™ve told u if I have only monst ( to get to 900 crit rate ) ā€¦ how much Iā€™d need if I also have quicken? And how much I would still have even without quicken? If itā€™s a good number it seems optimal to me ā€¦

Also ā€¦ is eleganos the best choice and then I gotta calculate with it or should I aim for smth else ? Thx

EDIT: Calculated again and if i go 1:1 ill get near 900 total crit (100% on 120 resist bosses wich are the ones with the most resist right?) with monstrance and quickenā€¦ with only monstrance its something in the 80ā€™s, close to 90ā€™s) not sure whats best to aim atmā€¦ actually having 100% by my own of if this STR i get to spare if i dont go for the 100% alone actually betterā€¦

thanks

#87

Quicken is a crit rate modifier like Swift Step. Essentially you put 25% on that spot (Crit Rate modifier). (Swift step + Quicken is 25%*25% aka 56.25%)

#88

My only doubt now is if, when alone I wonā€™t lose much by not having quicken?

If not then I might throw in some str, but I keep reading that str is not that good now ;p stuck in this bridge

#89

most players keep their Stand-alone Crit rate (meaning by their own) at around 80%, so with the help of party buffs you can easily reach the 100% rate.

IMO 80% isnā€™t not bad even alone, itā€™s a fine and good spot.

Unless your a fan of Yellow numbers, and gets pissed off when you see white ones. heuheu

#90

im trigerred

if you gonna do it, do it properly

its huehuehue~

hi5 bro

1 Like
#91

Quicken apply after monstrance? curiouse on how they stack in order to calculateā€¦

Now i have some options - Mobs with 0 Resist :

240:120 (STR:DEX) = 646 / 707 Monst / 883 Quicken after Monst.
180: 180 (STR:DEX) = 724 / 808 Monst / 1001 Quicken after Monst.
160: 200 (STR:DEX) = 751 / 843 Monst / 1053 Quicken after Monst.
125: 235 (STR:DEX) = 798 / 904 Monst / 1130 Quicken after Monst.

Ive threw in a 16k Skill to the damage comparison (Deathrone) and it seems that, if im fighting mobs with low crit resist like either 0 or 50 (wich should be base for normal mobs at max level) the builds with MORE STR win, but the thing here is that the diference to the builds that have MORE DEX is really low when compared to the damage i do to 100+ resist mobs. the STR wins on low resist mobs for like 100dmg or 200dmg and the DEX wins on high mobs for like 1000dmg, thats why im inclining more to the 125:235 one for example that gives me 900 crit with only monstrance (that i can have by myself).

Taking advices aswellā€¦ really need.

Tell me youre toughts please;

EDIT: @unicorntheshiny @Reilet

#92

Quicken is scaling. Scaling here are apply after flat is applied.

#93

Lemme your toughts m8, u know stuff =P im just calculating hereā€¦ the number telling me stuff but i cant really understand how it works in real situations.

#94

well at the point of 150 + dex itā€™s really up to you. i prefer to keep it in check in the middle than going 100% dex since i am more of a situational max min on World boss player.

If you are guarantee to have max crit after quicken + monstance i woulda stick to that.

The build with more strength generally will win at that point. Where as i dont over invest dex. I invest accordingly to my parties layout.

Any way this is pretty much your preference so i have no objective or advise. We can only guide you and give you numbers you have to make the choice. lol.

#95

Afff, wellā€¦ maybe i go for the 180:180 split, or maybe 160:200 not sure yet xD

its hard man :confounded:

#96

Monstrance is applied both before and after quicken. It depends on which one is used first

I.e: monstrance first = monstrance -> quicken. (((Dex * 1.3 + 10) + crit rate from elsewhere) *1.25)
Quicken first = quicken -> monstrance ((dex + crit rate from elsewhere) * 1.25 + (dex * 0.3 + 10)

Aka, itā€™s better to have monstrance applied before quicken. Afaik, ToS snapshots stat buffs and instead of tick updates. I also, have monstrance set to be applied before any crit rate modifiers on the spreadsheet because it was easier to do.


I would favor the higher crit rate way, but unlike others I prefer around 60~70% crit rate

#97

Am i trying way to hard to get 100% crit on my own ? my min-maxing nature its ruining my experience ā€¦ reallyā€¦

#98

Not really. Itā€™s pretty healthy to be competitive especially in NA.

#99

I almost forget they are to potato to update on the fly :scream:

#100

I mean that Iā€™m loosing so much time dicI sing on my route that itā€™s taking me double time to lvl up lolā€¦

#101

I have fencer soā€¦

Im gonna go DEX CON build because our rapier dmg was too low and
1 STR give us a little dmg than Cri rate from DEX (with Epee Stance boosts)

If you are Dopp. I recommended go with STR CON because of deeds of valor that stack your PATK and your cyclone was scale a lots with PATK