Screw quest rewards, those are fine. Quests are mostly for XP anyway. I was talking more in terms of rewards for dungeon bosses.
If you are only rank 4, why do you say itâs the same at higher levels? You clearly didnât read any topic.
While mobs are stupid as hell, they will hit you so hard after level 200 that not just your character, but even you will collapse next to your pc.
1 Like
Hm⌠Monsters really have poor AI (even pets), but they compensate it with HP, Atk, Matk and bloody statuses (sleep, freeze!!, lethargy etc). Plus flying mechanics, elements, race. Everything combine with different player skills.
You donât really need quick reaction, but at least you have to learn all your skills, plan your build and know the mobs. The game is actually about it and about killing tons of mobs.
Next - you take 100th level in two days. Itâs tutorial. 100+ on other hand have: dungeons, missions, where you just have to cooperate. Also a lot of people prefer to grind in parties from Demon Prison up to the end. So itâs really a lot of party content and you know - itâs not really fair to force anyone to party more just because you like this. And⌠have you tried to solo Peltasta-3 or Clecic-3 for example?
So itâs really âtake it or goâ, because you donât suggest real improvement. Itâs like âplease remake all the mobs to change the whole gameplay experience for my tastesâ. I was waiting years for this game, for builds, classes, grinding and lonely unsocial grinding at the middle of the night. Iâm not interested in challenge during the tutorial (first 100+ levels) and next levels are challenging just enought.
However IMAO World bosses AI and skills may need rework to make it quicker, but more dangerous.
Wow you just baffle me. Play your semantics if you want to, if how often a monster attacks isnât considered part of a monster design ( or AI), I donât know what kind of AI youâre referring to.
Also no thanks for derailing the topic. I suppose your comprehension is really poor that you do not understand that the problem being discussed is monster design in general. Not what is considered AI and what is not.
No, even regular monsters that do not buff themselves or when server load is low, they can take 3 seconds to wake up. When I say they take a long time to switch to agro mode I actually do mean the delay from non agro to agro, not buffs, or animation delay; i.e they are just standing there doing absolutely nothing while you get free hits into them for 3 seconds (usually fatal).
And youâre pulling accusations out of your ass.
And you obviously did not read the thread. This issue was already discussed.
Right, itâs just a compensation for something that could be done better.
Level range should not be an excuse for poor monster design.
I donât know where you got this idea. Itâs certainly something I did not claim / say.
Oh wow, I have to âtake it or goâ if I donât suggest real improvement. I gave an honest feedback and now I have to âtake it or goâ. Just wow. And the various suggestions that other people have suggested.
Now thatâs your personal opinion. maybe you should go play a LSPORPG.
All that wall of text to come back to the same conclusionâŚ
p/s: Lonely Single Player Offline Role Playing Game
1 Like
I guess you are right. I stand corrected on this issue. My bad.
On a side note, I think what you are seeking exists on 200+ levels. I donât feel that the monster designs are blatantly bad, but more like the difficulty curve really starts to spike only at end game. Iâd say it only becomes a little apparent when you hit about Level 210 and above.
I can give a few examples:
- Blue Spion Archer literally hits me for about 7k-10k damage, despite my health being around 20k. Iâd die from just 2-3 of them spawning on top of me.
- Magic ranged monsters with a â â â â ton of health. That says a lot because magic damage canât really be avoided in any way.
- World boss with insane magic aoe (Donât know the name because I saw it in a video)
I suppose the 3 seconds to attack thing you are talking about is simply the attack animation. Iâve seen some fast ones and some extremely slow ones, so I wouldnât really say that this is accurate. Also, â3 seconds before a monster attackâ doesnât really apply at later levels because most relevant monsters canât be burst down in that duration, well at least not from a single playerâs perspective anyway.
[quote=âCookyKim, post:1, topic:248118, full:trueâ]
All of this results in - no need for party play, hence repetitive and boring.
While this might improve in higher levels, Iâm already at rank 4 and itâs not any more difficult. Iâve also read high leveled people say that lvl 10 is the same as lvl 100 is the same as lvl 280.[/quote]
It does get more difficult but depending on how well you done your stats, you should or should not have too much trouble
A âone starâ map is very simple compared to a âthree starâ map
Yea the really slow ones are what Iâm referring to. The monsters in the dungeons donât seem to have this issue. Perhaps they are on always-aggressive mode so they donât have that switching delay.
Thanks for your input that this gets better over time. I do hope it gets better because itâs getting on my nerves how brain-dead it is clearing some of the monster hunting quests now. Keep having to distract myself without getting bored to death.
+1 to this
I was so excited to play ToS is because of 2 reasons: 1, Freaking awesome graphic and adventurous game. 2, I heard that âjumpâ is available in tos unlike in robefore (nvr play ro tho), my thoughts was this game would have a great boss mechanics
Iâm still level 98 linker, When I went into dungeon it was so easy, all you need was a tank, a dps, and any support behind them. This kind of mechanic what makes it boring. Iâve watched some videos too for higher level boss battles, and really u only need proper party. Not exactly having the right strategy to complete one.
IMO mechanic should be applied to more into end games( I know theres 1 boss with jump skill needed but itâs not enough) , take DN as an example, the Nest needed lot of memory and strategies to beat them not simply head on and beat the boss to death. Maybe like adding a few things like puzzle or jumping stone, or maybe thereâs timer, or maybe thereâs an exact HP % that the boss changed its move and skill. Thatâs what makes raids more fun, when u die if u moved a little or failing to click something.
The feeling that u completed those hard mechanics is what most rewarding from a raid, not because u just managed to DPS like hell the boss to its Grave.
Please notice this IMC!!! 
2 Likes
âŚWhy would you just Stand there? -_-
What if there were alternate versions of current monsters, that they were all converted to look like Lolis but tried to have their original style somewhat still.
âŚKepa Loli with weird leaf things sticking out of her head?
Then stick Kepaâs face as their facial expression when they get hit
Thatâs only about bosses and maybe Hi-end raids. Because bosses is where people go seeking for challenge and gain and should be ready. Iâm totally OK with current state of normal mobs.
No interest in dying trough leveling at the world map until 220+
[quote=âCookyKim, post:44, topic:248118â]
Right, itâs just a compensation for something that could be done better.[/quote]
Your idea doesnât mean âbetterâ anyway. âHarderâ doesnât mean âbetterâ, btw.
[quote=âCookyKim, post:44, topic:248118â]
Level range should not be an excuse for poor monster design. [/quote]
Itâs not excuse. Rank 4 is like⌠120+? Itâs just like killing Kepas at first location and asking why they are so easy. Most classes are not even finished at this stage - like having first profession in RO. Also tanks and Non-Priest-Clerics (even future DD) already have hardships with leveling without party. And from my experience, harder leveling doesnât mean more parties, only more potions for DD and more pain for supports. As Druid I started to KILL only at 200+.
[quote=âCookyKim, post:44, topic:248118â]
I donât know where you got this idea. Itâs certainly something I did not claim / say.[/quote]
You did.
[quote=âCookyKim, post:44, topic:248118â]
Oh wow, I have to âtake it or goâ if I donât suggest real improvement. I gave an honest feedback and now I have to âtake it or goâ. Just wow. And the various suggestions that other people have suggested. [/quote]
Sort of. You also may give feedback like âOh, I donât really like the grafics, I think less anime and more 3D will make it betterâ.
Oh, no! Iâm sorry! RO, PoE, Diablo and all other grinding online games are so rare and uncommon, so nobody have ever any interest in grinding!
There are Guilds, PvP, Mass-PvP in future, Crafting (I mean Alchemy and so), Auction and other things that require MMO, but donât require leveling in parties.
I suppose itâs better if they just remove all AI and just leave a static monster sprite and HP as a EXP punch bag.
And where did you get that idea? Making monster AI react faster than 3 seconds make it âharderâ lmao.
lol last time I checked classes finish within 3 circles. Unless you consider hidden classes as part of it. And I suppose you need your plague doctor / kabbalist class to start making proper use of heal.
Like I said before even at novice / first class level RO demonstrated superior monster design.
Precisely why the AI should be made more complex and apply damage to DPS classes better so clerics and tank actually have a purpose. As it stands now many DPS build with no CON can straight up face tank 10 mobs for a good 10 seconds or more.
Also improving monster AI will have little impact, if any on the leveling difficulty for these classes. The reason is that Tank / supports arenât having a hard time leveling because they are OMFG dying so often, but the lack of DPS. If anything it will make DPS classes want to party them up and make their leveling EASIER.
I guess thatâs why people donât party up past lvl 210+. Because they can totally solo it and itâs the best way to do it.
No I did not:
None of your quotes suggested that I wanted FORCE players to party more. I did not suggest to make the mobs OP like lvl 210+. I suggested to improve the monster AI so that they behave better (like not sit there for 3 seconds punchbag). The AI is so poor at applying damage to players now that I donât even need to use potions most of the time. The point of healer classes has always been âfree healsâ, at the very least. But at this point that isnât even needed.
You raised a completely inappropriate example using a PERSONAL PREFERENCE (i.e. I like blue, you should change everything to blue); when the issue at hand is not a personal preference but a design problem. So much so that bots donât even need to pot or use any extensive programming other than click to kill - walk to the next mob - repeat. Thereâs no need to kite, pot, use skills. Just click and wait. One canât even mob well because the monster take so long to react and thereâs a agro limit (5 or 6).
All you want is a punch exp bag. Or a rapid âgrindâ to lvl 280 so you can enjoy âend gameâ. When this game was designed to have a protracted leveling phase (the main prize) and limited end game content (consolation prize).
Instead of me âtake it or goâ. seems like you are the one who should just pick another game that is focused on those features.
I donât know what this means. The sentence is inconsistent.
These donât require an MMO even regular RPGs have them (simulated market etc.)
I see your motive. You are just one of those players that want the easiest grind possible. Perhaps because your mental faculties is so dull that it can only process task with that much complexity, or perhaps you are rushing to an âend gameâ fantasy that doesnât exist, and thus care to only skim the leveling phase.
I donât think the majority of the gaming community here share your goals. Most are here to play the whole game, that includes a reasonably stimulating monster AI / design.
Congratulations! But thatâs like some hours of gameplay time max? Give it some time.
I agree, though. Boss AI can be very unchallenging.
And AI taking three seconds is a lie. Itâs not that bad. You need to give up on that. lol
I actually timed it. Some monsters are ok and have 1 second delay but there are monsters up to 5 second delay or more. Although the other was right that it usually isnât the initial agro phase that lags, but the animation delay (movement, skill or normal attacks).
The other problem is that there is a delay after the monster reaches you. Hence monster moves to your location > Pause for 3 seconds > swings for damage. During that 3 seconds you can easily kite it, then the mob have to repeat moving to your location and trying to hit you again.
This problem is especially pronounced for ranged character as it makes kiting far too easy.
Another problem due to the really long animation delay is that monsters donât ever combo their skills to make it effective. e.g. they cast joint penalty on you (and your companion), and the next attack will come so much later, usually the link is broken by the time the next attack hits. So essentially the monster just wasted ~10 seconds.
I literally hate doing quests because this. Iâm literally just spamming âzâ and running to place to place and talking to NPCs. I donât even read what they say tbh. or care about the new monsters i face. i just hack and slash them to death.
Im not sure if its the monster AI or Main Quest line that kills the fun however. Because the Main quest line is designed to be âsolo-ableâ for all types of classes, its difficult to make it âhardâ i guess? no strategy needed.
thank god the main quest line ends at lvl 200. ( IMO it should be like lvl 100 )
i think the quests should give to access to good grinding maps, special titles, special items and should be completely optional. also add some behaviors to the monsters or something.
1 Like
I feel you on this, and itâs just as frustrating for me as it must be for you to read the things people are saying when they try to defend the horrible derpyness of mobs in this game. I just donât even understand it, I feel like any rational person could look at the mobs actions in this game and instantly recognize that theyâre extremely poorly designed, and yet you have people popping up saying that itâs good because a spion archer can randomly hit you with a high-damage spiral arrow.
I also applaud you for dealing with the idiots who just pop in to say âhey if you care about a game and want to criticize it to try to get the devs to make it better, clearly the obvious choice is to stop trying and go play something else.â If reading someone pointing out the flaws in a game youâre playing bothers you so much you want them to disappear, you should probably go stick your head back in the sand and stop reading gameplay feedback forums.
The real problem with this is that itâs just not all that fun to deal with mobs. It doesnât feel challenging even when you face one of the mobs with high enough stats that it can do some serious damage to you, because it has nothing to do with how the mob is acting or chaining skills, itâs just damage numbers.
I donât think people generally understand what it means to make mobs more challenging/interesting.
Making the mobs not act derpy doesnât mean that you will die more. It just means that you will have more to react to, and if it was well designed there would simply be interesting counterplay.
1 Like
There are so many faults in the design approach to monster combat that combat is virtually identical for the first 130 levels or so. Which is plainly too much time for most casual and plenty of hardcore players to simply regard the game as garbage and assign it to the recycle bin. Beyond that point, it still doesnât change, only that the monsters become considerably stronger and naturally donât yield better rewards to compensate.
From what iâve observed, most mobs have a self-buff that they donât use until theyâre at less than 20% health, by then theyâve lost so much health that by the time they finish casting their useless skill, theyâre dead.
You can see this everywhere on mobs using the obvious Deeds of Valor, Restrain, Frenzy, Burrow and Gung-Ho. That is quite literally, all the buffs that mobs use, and theyâre all suicide skills; either further lowering the monsterâs HP, Defense or simply delaying them with the skill delay that they stop attacking.
Of the offensive skills; those too require specific circumstances to be cast. Usually when youâre out of physical range for most of them, others are simply random. In either case, out of all the hundred or so offensive skills that IMC couldâve given mobs, theyâre pretty much the same useless crap: Umbo-Blow, Fireball, Multi-shot, Magic Missile, Scatter Caltrops and a few other random low-rank skills in no particular order.
1 Like
Monsters utilizing these skills may be harmless to a ranged character, but at higher levels they are absolutely devastating to a melee character. As a Swordsman, I canât count how many times Iâve been caught in a vicious cycle of melee-range CC while being pummeled to a sliver of my health. This is compounded not just by the fact that many high-level monsters are immune to my own stuns and knockdowns, but also by the fact that all monsters can use their abilities while they are knocked down.
So itâs not that these monster abilities donât impact combat gameplay, itâs just that they mostly affect characters who engage in melee combat. And unfortunately for us melee classes, there is very little we can do to counter these abilities.
Yeah, totally agree with you, mob AI is dumb.
But for the foreseeable future, I can only recommend the âdeal with itâ approach.
Seems that the amount of lag influences the AI delay, they become even more dumb
But really, when i mob these wizard monsters with CC i feel the pain in my butt. Just sometimes, cus sometimes they were just looking at me while i was freezed or knocked down.
Iâm just level 70 now, maybe this gets better at higher levels?