The reason why this game bores is because the mob AI is not challenging

[batcat]

RO was just a much faster paced game than ToS will ever be. The movement/AI of RO was very fast, one of the reasons mages/wizards have a hard time soloing and is much better off in groups due to their long cast time and their effectiveness while under bragi. The leveling curve was so very deep without exp resets like ToS, and dying meant 2-3 hours loss of time due to exp penalty.

ToS has been built to be a much more casual version of RO, they want every class to be able to solo regardless of class. Thats why it seems much easier. RO also had mechanics like fly wing to get away from a mob, imagine soloing as a wizard in ToS with mimics running around 3 shotting you. It would be almost unplayable for these classes with no escapes.

[jon_prime24]

Most of the guys here seem to misunderstand what the op is saying. People should understand that he meant only on how the monsters fight. It is true that the game AI is sort of clunky which makes it easier to predict the monsters and the game makes it up for sheer number/damage that roll stomps even the best.

Yes, the game gets harder in the later parts.[I have a 246 pyrolinker and 200 corsair so I’m not just basing it on another person.] But the AI for the monsters don’t get better, their damage and sheer numbers are what overwhelms most of us.

Hoping it improves in the future. Game is still fun though more so in parties.

[Gringe]

I’m not a fan of the idea of only just throwing hordes of enemies at you to make the game difficult… I hope this isnt their only plan.

I think they should add dungeons and areas with smarter enemies.

Also mobs can have the same AI, but much stronger making it so you have to dodge or your going to have a bad time…

Keep in mind im not that high up in level yet because ive been working on a few different characters so idk.

[lemaitre_dulotus]

OP is right. Monsters have a meatbag-like AI.

[Ayalon]

Yeah I quite hate the AI… Especially the Boss AIs are bad.

And yes what a lot of ppl don’t understand is that it is not rly challanging if the monsters one shotting you or simply has a lot of HP/DEF.

What is annoying in it is that the devs made the game capable of doing it better…and they don’t use its full potential.

Same with dungeons… we could have traps…puzzles and lots of fun…but they just copy pasted some mobs on some simple maps.

But all of these can be changed or come with time so I hope it will be better later.

I think the devs should play some Monster Hunter btw… to learn how to make better boss AIs… and for normal mobs…we actually don’t need that big things. We just rly need different ones where you have to react to them differently… like @CookyKim said how it was in RO.

I would actually add those good RO examples to the first post…but I guess ppl would just whine about it that it is not RO…

[dahdoczock]

Bosses one-shotting is no different to RO, either they pose a threat by big numbers, or they are a punching-bag with strange loot. Plus boss-behavior reacting to player actions is not good as the player forced the boss to do what he wanted. No it was not better from a gameplay point of view.

[nuclearmissile]

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

[Ayalon]

I didn’t talk about bosses when I was talking about RO. I actually said at the end if we talking about bosses devs should play Monster Hunter. X) …and no they shouldn’t exactly make the gameplay that action like either… but we still need better boss movements that we have to learn and adapt to it with time.

Also one shotting is a thing too and can be an extra challange it just shouldn’t be the only factor…I would say it could be more rare instead. I kinda think even bosses should have rather hard hitting attacks than real one shotting ones then.

What was good in RO is the diversity of normal mobs. Like almost every class had a nice place to level in a bit different way etc. In TOS I didn’t felt that much diversity yet but I also didn’t even reach that levels as others.

Also I think even normal mobs could have more possibilities than RO could ever have because ToS is more action-like.

So actually ToS could not just have mobs like RO but could have even much better one than RO…but it is not rly happening at the moment imo.

[lemaitre_dulotus]

So actually ToS could not just have mobs like RO but could have even much better one than RO…but it is not rly happening at the moment imo.

I would like to emphasize this

[yyang_umd]

Mobs are still pretty Fcktard, but when massive amount of fcktard cum together, they create a fcktard festsome

lmfao +1
20000000000000000

[alex25000]

RO monsters were fucktards too.
We would mobtrain a whole map in Thor 2 and they could follow for a whole map. They were chasing you on a point. If you moved the monsters waited to reach your previous location before updating their paths.

The reaction time is somewhat similar for agressive monsters. The only thing I agree on as that when you attack a monster he can take a second to wake up.

But RO was like that too. You could hit block a monster and kill him before he started moving. But they were a bit faster on the wake up.

[Firefly]

The reason why this game bores is because it’s not challenging

I do agree that monsters are fcktards.

but

All of this results in - no need for party play, hence repetitive and boring.

Have u tried earth tower? If not yet, please do try it. Mobs are still pretty Fcktard, but when massive amount of fcktard cum together, they create a fcktard festsome that will surely REKT your team especially if u dont have support.

While this might improve in higher levels, I’m already at rank 4 and it’s not any more difficult. I’ve also read high leveled people say that lvl 10 is the same as lvl 100 is the same as lvl 280.

Theres 2 path…

Rush Level = Boring
Take It slow = Fun

in ktos, i do not understand any of the quest there, including the collection and merc system. thats why i rush level etc. Its pretty boring and repetitive. However, here in iTOS the language barrier is removed. Thus, i do quest, sub quest, hidden quest, collection item hunt (this takes most of my time) etc etc etc and leveling is my last priority.

I played when the Fedimian server was launched, around a week after EA started? not sure… anyway, i always over level the next required map coz i always try my best to complete the map collection before i move to the next.

now, i have completed 65 collections, thats 65 benefits and probably equal to 70-100 stats. I was also able to complete 100% of maps, except for the ones with secret location which needs item/quest other than the holy cross (around 2 maps?). I was also able to get lots of silver from in demand normal drops, rare drops like free partisan, sage wall, plant bracelet, battle bracelet, vubber fighter blood, obsidian, mythril etc…

Leveling is 1 Feature of TOS and if you focus on leveling alone, for sure you will get bored.

but, when you do collection, map exploration, questing, sub questing, Hidden questing (like the red obelisk, hidden treasures, stone pillars, RM hidden quest etc) which adds a lot of challenges and fun, then you do everything including leveling in a slower but surely fun manner.

so my advice will be, take it slow.

tldr

Taking it slow doesn’t change the fact that it gets boring.

First, please continue go to rank 6, and go Sentry Bailey.You must meet the mobs who named: Brown RambearTry to lure 2 or 3. Stand there and count how long you can survice.

You have yet to meet blue spion archer.

[Darumy]

Speaking of blue spion archers, why exactly do enemy arrows and magic home so well? I could be standing 8 ft behind an archer, zigzagging, and spiral arrow will still hit my ass. And magic is literally not outrunnable. I’ve tested, it will chase you for the entire map and catch up to you because it can skip every corner.

I wish this game did have more interesting AI and dodging mechanics. Being completely unable to avoid mob magic attacks and arrows doesn’t make things more challenging, it’s just either boring or “oh christ is my gear good enough so I can kill this thing before it kills me”. The only interesting part is timing CCs so you don’t get wrecked by whatever.

To be fair though, in large mob based games (HAHAHA ALTHOUGH WE DON’T REALLY HAVE THAT), the AI is purposefully bunkered down to a very simple chase and hit thing so things dont get extremely confusing. Bosses could always use more work, though.

[Akira.Yatsu]

Akira Yatsu +1’d this

Please IMC make something out of your stupid Kepas. They’re suffering from a very bad case of imbecile syndrome. Common symptoms include delayed reaction to pain, numbness in extremities (Or in this case, whole body) and really, really, stupid AI’s.

Challenge is something I expect when playing a game, specially when soloing as a Tank against 25 mobs. I expect them to do some damage. Not for me to become the craziest meatshield at level 100. It’s depressing at its best. I’d like to see the mcast heal on me, maybe use a “Critical attack” or some RANDOM skill that we dont possess, I don’t care if enemies have different attacks we dont.
As long as it makes the game fun. At least I dont find any fun in killing things by autoattacking and mixing my stuopid combos. I can only do that for so long before it becomes tedious.

[Sayurichan]

In my opinion there are two types for MMORPGs when it comes to trash mobs:
a) Either you gather tons of mobs which will follow you and you will kill them with aoe-bombardment (RO and Diablo are this way)
b) You focus on only one or two mobs at a time, where the battles are more complex but also alot slower and it’s alot harder to gather more than 3~4 mobs together, let alone kill them very fast. One example would be Aion.

Tree of Savior, in my opinion, fits in category “a)” and i don’t mind it.

About trash mobs:
Since this is a spiritual Ragnarok Online sequel i don’t mind normal mobs to be rather “stupid”, since normal monsters in RO were also quite stupid and it made it more fun to gather tons of monsters and kill them at the same time. Imagine if monsters were actually smart, this kind of gameplay wouldn’t be possible if monsters were smart enough to not run after you.

About boss monsters:
While there are certain differences between boss monsters i think they are way too similar. Pretty much every boss i’ve encountered so far opens up with throwing trans and then does his thing. And while “their thing” can have a bit of variety (some monsters charge around, some stand in place throwing projectiles, some try to melee you) they still feel kinda similar, and i think there could be done alot more with the traps. Don’t throw 4~5 traps that almost don’t do anything at the same spot, scatter them all around and make them do stuff that requires strategy or quick reactions (for example scatter 20~30 traps with lights around the arena. After a while some randomly chosen traps become red and will explode in the next 5~10 seconds while other traps become green, meaning they won’t explode, so the player has to flee to the green traps. After the red traps exploded the traps turn off again, exploded traps respawn and new randomly chosen traps will turn red).

And yea, alot more could be done with the dodging mechanic.

The mole boss (shooting needles from his back) or the big-eyed beholder thing (that shoots laser beams from its eye and throws energy bolts all around him) a re bosses that i enjoyed.
I haven’t seen all bosses yet (only lvl 200 so far), however I think bosses could also use more of players abilities, like Psychokinos throw-targets-around ability, Chronomancers timestop (boss casts timestop on healers -> other players have to survive on their own for ~10 seconds), Corsairs Keelhauling, Joint Penalty+Hangmans knot-combo, etc.

[Akira.Yatsu]

Wait, you talking about RO, where monsters:

1. Had unique skills
2. Had competitive AI’s
3. Had random murdering skills [Coma and such]
4. Were very hard to mob in Middle/Late game without a DECENTLY GOOD party.

I think RO had a little more competitive AI than I’ve seen here.
Just check the command lines for enemies like the enemies in Odin’s temple.

I wound’t mind enemies every now and then popping a random skill that will almost murder me, but so far the closest I’ve got to it is when I go AFK in a dungeon and 20 enemies punch me long enough to break my equipment.

I do appreciate the AI of most bosses though. Wish that existed a lot more.
and a +1 to [quote=“stefan.hohnwald, post:35, topic:248118”]
I haven’t seen all bosses yet (only lvl 200 so far), however I think bosses could also use more of players abilities, like Psychokinos throw-targets-around ability, Chronomancers timestop (boss casts timestop on healers -> other players have to survive on their own for ~10 seconds), Corsairs Keelhauling, Joint Penalty+Hangmans knot-combo, etc.
[/quote]

[Sayurichan]

[quote=“Akira.Yatsu, post:36, topic:248118”]
Wait, you talking about RO, where monsters:
Had unique skills
Had competitive AI’s
Had random murdering skills [Coma and such]
Were very hard to mob in Middle/Late game without a DECENTLY GOOD party.[/quote]
Well,i was mostly talking about difficulty in terms of “naively run after players without much thought”, i didn’t really mean to comment on the amount of skills they can use.
Of course i know RO monsters had alot more skills to use compared to monsters in TOS. I’d also like monsters in TOS to use more skills, however i heavily disagree with monsters having ultra-murder skills, because of the following:

I wound’t mind enemies every now and then popping a random skill that will almost murder me, but so far the closest I’ve got to it is when I go AFK in a dungeon and 20 enemies punch me long enough to break my equipment.

I disagree with monsters getting “murder skills”. Remember that compared to RO you can’t spam hundreds of potions in a matter of seconds (nor do you have full-heal items like Yggberries or spamable safetywalls), the amount of heal you can do is relatively limited. So while many monsters certainly could be a more challenging i would not really like, for example, RO monsters (exaggerated) 50kdmg-clashing-spiral attacks every 10 seconds, because RO’s skill powers were balanced for an environment where you could spam healing potions.

[Akira.Yatsu]

I agree lol. That could be a massive issue.

But now i see where you come from, I guess the difficulty was more or less on par if we don’t consider the skills.

[rayrodger64]

If they do put in more rewarding items for quest rewards, I hope it would be more challenging to match the reward especially for main quests.
Main quests needs to be more Epic and Tough! Challenging enough to give me free retries if possible. I guess when a game is easy to play, I feel mocked that bots can do it

[shein.89]

I was reading all the way down here and agreeing with what you said… until this post. The examples you mentioned doesn’t even have anything to do with having smarter/challenging/different AIs.

Familiar that has high attack speed that keeps interrupting mages, but poses no problem for melee classes. This scales up to mimic / ancient mimic in higher level places.

• This is just an attack speed stat.

Insect monsters that will mob you if you attacked any one of them.

• The only point that I agree with has something to do with AI.

Plant monsters that have very high attack but have low range and immobile

• Still just data / stat. Higher damage, low range, 0 movement speed =/= AI.

monsters that have burst damage skills (sonic blow etc)

• Still just data / stat. Monster has skill =/= AI. I’m pretty sure the most basic AI already knows how to cast skills. Putting a skill into the database for monster is NOT AI.

most maps have a mix of passive and more powerful aggressive mobs

• Still just data / stat. Putting different monsters of different stats and skills =/= AI.

3 Seconds to switch to aggro? Let me explain a little on this.
These are only normally noticeable on 2 situations:

1. The mob actually has to cast some retarded buff like pain barrier before moving to you.
2. Lag. Bad bad lag. This is very evident for me whenever I have 15ms vs 300ms. When I have 15ms, aggro is almost instant. I’m pretty sure I don’t have to explain how that affects the time it takes for a monster to get aggro’d onto you. I mean, it’s simple math and logic on ping time.