Tree of Savior Forum

The more expensive female hairstyles is an UGLY look for the game

same as your age, and your mom is in the forum too.
Beware!

Lmao how can it be subjective? Im not ■■■■■■■ talking about which looks better. Go and compare the effects/animations/detail put into both gender’s hair. The male are lackluster in all thos3 areas when compared to their female counterparts

Smart boy, guess why the difference is only on haircut and not on costume clothes? Because the costumes are done with the same detail/animations for every gender. If they make the haircuts the same quality then they can change the prices. So either:

A: upgrade male’s hair quality(animation,detail. IM NOT TALKING ABOUT HOW GOOD IT LOOKS BC THAT IS SUBJECTIVE) and raise the price to match the female’s

B: downgrade female’s hair quality and lower the price to match the male’s.

Id pick A if I could.

Only thing I see that I disagree with is the “Supply and Demand” argument.

This is a game, thus unlimited supply, unlimited demand. You just create the item once, and it’s copied infinitely, and as long as the game is up, you’ve got infinite potential buyers. Thus, no real reason for the price difference. The demand won’t be there, however, if the pricing is sketchy. Though, I don’t disagree that the price was made higher because, well, it’s true that males play female characters, and although the percentage is getting closer, male gamers do still outnumber the female ones. Still… Is that justification enough? No other game does it. Although… Very few games out there actually allow the use of female hairs on males, and vice-versa, so people asking for that are being unrealistic as well.

But honestly… Despite being an egalitarian, I don’t really see this as sexism. Furthermore, before changing something like this (even if changing it is as simple as editing the number in the item shop), I’d prefer they tackle the restrictions they put on normal players to prevent bots (and RMT distributors/advertisers) that… They just aren’t preventing, at all. A system that is ultimately dependent on players reporting the bots isn’t a good one, either, because people will eventually get tired of doing so. They need to find an automated method, or have teams that aren’t just banning only the botters reported by players. :sweat:

Its useless, you can detail and describe everything but its just talking to a wall.

Just like every other posts made by Zipzo, its just ideas that had no point in being brought up in the first place, just for the sake of looking like hes the one whos right and everyone else is wrong.

Thats fine. You dont have to agree with everything. The supply and demand part i was saying was more like “the stuff that sells more, costs more to increase profit”. Not a more “we have less supply, so it costs more”.

I disagree that the price is higher because it takes more effort, an argument many here seem to make. Yes, female hairs have more animation, but the male ones are just as animated. Furthermore, to all of those spouting this argument; have you ever made a hairstyle for a game, animated or otherwise? I have made many. I can say without a doubt that yes, female hairs do take more effort, but only if the hair length is longer. Bobs, pigtails, and ponytails are easy as hell (easier than long, luxurious, flowing hair), so why are they not more frequent?

Oh, right, because they’d have to make them cheaper. But wait, isn’t there a male hairstyle that is lengthy?

Also, about the only additional attention to detail put into female hairstyles tends to be more curls, and more shine, sometimes more layers. Pretty much it 90% of the time. Though, the artist has expressed a bias for female character designs over males, which means she most likely enjoys creating them for females more. Enjoying your work often leads to not caring about the extra effort. However, the artist almost never gets the choice in pricing inside the game, just choice in what they want the devs to pay (usually in addition to a salary if they work directly for a company, but some get paid per-job, which is consistent if the artist does more than just character/costume design). So, the developers are to blame for the pricing.

The only logical answer is that they are basing their prices on the fact that males tend to play female characters more often than not, and male gamers somewhat outnumber female gamers… Though, this isn’t factual for every region. In the US, it’s about 50/50 nowadays for gaming in general, though I’d say more 70/30 in MMOs.

But, still, just like many choices the devs have made for this game (pretty much putting the entire trade and market system behind a paywall, for example, to “prevent bots” that they aren’t preventing through any means other than banning those reported by players), the more expensive female hairstyles are a questionable choice, yet another that screams greed, not sexism.

But yeah, should totally raise the price of the male premium hairstyles. to match the female premium hairstyles. People might complain that “males got theirs cheaper for a period of time,” but really, prices are constantly changing anyway. It’s just like the argument of, “They got X because they were here before I started playing the game! It’s so unfair! I want X, too!”

Alrighty then. That I agree with. :stuck_out_tongue:

Though I do wish they’d stop with the greed a bit, more specifically within the market and trade areas. :sweat:

“You are fking gay” is used mostly in asia to insult people, so they filter it out
Isn’t it the same in the west ?

I do agree that there are far more important problems, but before I just let this go, what are the negative consequences to simply upping the price of male hairstyles? Or at least, the animated male hairstyles, like noble ponytail?

I can think of:

  • people simply not buying the hair (though the prices are already so high, why would they falter just because the prices match the female ones?)
  • uhhhh

As someone who loves to draw hair, I sincerely believe female hair is easier than male hair. It’s one of the main reasons why I simply draw more girls than guys. It may not be the the same for everyone, but judging from her twitter, maggi seems to be more partial to drawing females and female designs as well. Plus, the styling for females is much more diverse before you start to get complaints about it.

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I agree that they should all be the same price,but I wouldn’t call it sexist intentionally or not.It’s too severe without knowing the actual reasoning beforehand.

Many guys play as girl characters,yes.But some girls play as guys as well,myself included.I think the majority doesn’t mean anything here and it fails as an argument.Also,yes haircuts for a female cost more in real life,but does that make it any less stupid? No.Those should be less,too.

Considering how much 100 TP costs,I think the price for all the hairs should be lower anyway,personally.

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Yes.

Like if i call you a ■■■, wouldnt you get offended?

There are some universal things that hold true every place you go.

Go to any place…ANY PLACE on the map (besides buddhist temples) and call a man a ■■■/homo/queer ect ect. See if they dont get mad. I promise you that it was censored due to being an insult.

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They actually don’t cost more. A barber shop (usually male-specific customers, but they will cut anyone’s hair) around here will actually charge you more if they have to use scissors, because it requires more skill. Granted, it’s usually 5-15 dollars more, depending on what is done, but I’m sure they’d charge out the ass if you came in asking them to do layers or something. :sweat_smile:

People who work in hair salons are specifically trained for doing a set of general hairstyles (constantly improving) for both males and females. Barber shops, on the other hand are pretty much just trained to do the general average on both genders, which on males, mostly just involves grabbing the clippers and shaving it all off.

But yes, comparing it to real life, or making the argument that it is priced like that because they expect more to be purchased is silly. If anything, in real life, most companies actually decrease the price of an item slightly if they see a spike in sales, especially if they haven’t sold anything in a while, just to sale more in a case where they may not have sold anything. But in this case? I think the cost of the male premium hairstyles should be raised to be the same.

Also, FFS, yes, the TP cost is ridiculous! I’m a “privileged American,” and I think wanting $18 for a token that lasts $30, that is only valuable because they put trades and the market behind such a paywall, is outrageous. The people who can’t afford it will most likely just not play. It’s one thing to give rewards out to the paying customers (incentives are damn near necessary nowadays), but forcing things behind a paywall makes it pretty much pay-to-win… With a poor excuse of “RMT and bot prevention.”

If you say it to me, I won’t get mad. But you’re dead :heart:

I wouldnt get mad, Id laugh, turn the other cheek and walk away.

I actually don’t understand what ■■■ mean, so I guess I don’t get mad yet XD
But I understand your reasoning :3

Shorter hairstyles should definitely be cheaper, while longer hairstyles should be more expensive, if anything determines the price difference, regardless of gender.

But I’ll also repeat myself and say that the artist usually has no say-so in pricing when it comes to MMOs, especially if the artist is on a per-job payment plan. Though, even on a salary, you usually don’t get much say so, and usually hear, “We will consider your suggestion,” and that’s about it. :confused:

This would be a good way to do things, ye.

And yeah, the only way for artists to have much pricing control these days is mini freelance jobs with their own set comission prices. Pricing on mmorpgs is always a weird thing, because the devs with the passion and effort put into making the game itself are usually seperate from the ones making the business decisions haha. Dunno how it is for IMC, since they’re so small, but maybe the people who set the prices thought in the same lines as a lot of people against readjusting the prices.

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You say the artist has a preference of doing female hair/art correct? Then it wouldnt be impossible to think that she could CHARGE imc more for female hairstyles/female art. Why? Because she can charge more for the thing she excels at, she knows her male art isnt in the same level as her female one, hence she charges less for those. Thats 1 way to explain the discrepancy on prices

Pricing in bigger MMOs tends to either be determined by the head developer, or determined by a set pricing standard (usually not specific to a certain game or product, just that you have to make x amount of money if you invest x amount of money) from the corporation they work for.

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It’s impossible because the artist almost never gets to determine any pricing in-game, just the pricing they charge for the art. In this case, she’s probably on a salary anyway. It’s usually the head developer, or the corporation itself that determines pricing.

That said, I still say that price should be based on effort, not gender. Different lengths of hair take more effort regardless of the gender they’re for (adding layers and shine are actually pretty easy, to be honest). Basically, the most expensive should be anything longer than shoulder-length (oh God, especially anything mid-back or longer), and things shorter than shoulder-length should be cheap. Anything close to the head that is more or less no larger than an average headgear should be the cheapest. Regardless of whether or not the artist can determine these prices, this is usually industry standard when it comes to charging for hairstyles in-game. Why this game doesn’t do it this way is beyond me.