So that it serves as much customization of classes
if you are forced to use a class that not everyone will interest you
the guild system should be something totally unrelated to the classes you choose should be a separate system
when I started the game wanted to to get to the inquisitor class and create my own guild for first time
never before he had been guild master, but knowing the guild system all my plans came down, I may no longer be guild master with my favorite class
and even if it was a global class, would break several builds
make both?
all your characters are in the same guild, and all your characters have the same permissions as the "leader / templar"
only the skills are locked to templar.
I see some logic in your post but I actually like this system better.
If you want to be an inquisitor, be an inquisitor, it is perfectly fine. But you know what you can also do? Sacrifice some of your time on this character to make a swordie and get it to at least rank 7 for Templar.
IMC did an amazing job with this system because it means people will see guilds less as a place to gather their friends casually, but as a dedicated effort that requires time and communication within the guild. People have to take care of the plants, they have to set up a Discord or TeamSpeak to be together for GvG, and they take the guilds more seriously than in any other game.
itâs a joke??
I would not mind if it were something that will take time, but in the way they did is not correct
that the guild system is linked to a class will not do more serious
the game has a lot of good things and a lot of potential but there are several things that truly stinks
It would have been better to have left the templar completely separate of Classes of rank, that through quests at a certain level you could unlock without affecting the builds
that would not be as annoying as the current system, there are better ways of doing things
So that it serves as much customization of classes
if you are forced to use a class that not everyone will interest you
Well first of all, Itâs actually pretty good since we can lower the amount of âGhost Guildsâ in the game since it is pretty hard to get one in the first place.
when I started the game wanted to to get to the inquisitor class and create my own guild for first time
never before he had been guild master, but knowing the guild system all my plans came down, I may no longer be guild master with my favorite class
and even if it was a global class, would break several builds
IMC gives free â â â â for suckers playing their 5fps poor excuse for guild war.
And⌠yeah letâs not even bother think about the toxic drama that comes with it.
It is a bit strange. Iâm going to side with others here on the guild system needing a rework.
1. Youâre forced to make a near useless character class to make a guild, solely for the purpose of âroleplayâ. You will sink 100hours+ into a character you will barely touch once youâve got Templar with it.
Why? What reasoning occurred in IMCs discussions about guilds for them to come to the conclusion that this is a good and fun thing to put into the game? Is the intent to have fewer guilds in the game?
2. 25-35 player restriction in guilds promotes more guilds over fewer guilds.
This is in direct conflict with the intention of having fewer guilds by making guilds hard to get by making Templar hard to achieve. It encourages more guilds.
Additionally to this, the limit encourages guilds to be choosey about who they allow into the guild. This means you canât get into a guild unless youâre 200+ because youâre a wasted slot for pvp otherwise. This is BAD for the game as a whole, a huge part of what keeps players playing an MMO is the social side of the game, guilds are the one thing in ToS that introduces people to the social aspects right now, but it is strictly limited to people that have already played the game a huge amount.
In Daijoubu weâre bypassing this restriction by making multiple Templars and guilds, then guild-hopping between the guilds in order to have more players for events and such. This makes the restriction pointless. Not everyone has the luxury of having enough hardcore players in order to do this.
3. No lower level guild content. Level 50-230.
Guild content starts at level 230. There is basically nothing that any player can do in guild events below this level. There should be guild content for all levels.
All of this contributes to a lack of player retention in the 50-200 level area. Most players donât reach rank 7 because they donât get grabbed by the game.
Templars themselves are basically a sad roleplay-only class, this is unrewarding and not-fun. Classes can be BOTH roleplay AND actually balanced alongside the rest of the classes. It is exceptionally poor design to force players to do something unenjoyable, unrewarding and unsatisfying just to be able to utilise a historically important and core feature of every mmo to have existed previously.
Previously Iâve laid out changes that should occur to the previous open-field guild warfare. This would add a great deal of possibilities for roleplay and entertaining content for all-levels that I think is worth a read. That post is here:
Iâm going to copy paste that post here on the offchance that IMC decide reading these suggestions could be of value to them. I donât know how much influence our @moderators really have, but itâs worth a shot.
Continuing on from my gamemodes post⌠Iâd really like an openworld gvg fix too.
Instead of the old openworld gvg system with multiple channel hopping occurring I have an alternate idea.
Each week a material should be called for by whatever you want to call the government of the game at this point in time.
Guilds can acquire this material by farming it on the zones.
The material can only be acquired in channel 1.
In order to accept this quest to seek the materials, guilds must come out of neutrality.
In order to âfarmâ the materials, you must collect the materials AND return them to your guild tower.
Other guilds can declare war on one another and intercept or fight with others over farming the materials.
Warping with the mats destabilises them and renders them useless to the government/whatever, so youâre actually forced to walk from the mat zone to your tower location to acquire the mats for your guild.
This keeps combat on channel 1 in only a few specific zones. It will make it extremely important for guilds to place their guildtowers near the zones with the mats so their members can farm them quicker. Territorial fighting will occur over the mats. The fact that players must return to their towers opens up ROLEPLAY opportunities for classes like scouts who will then be able to stealthily follow the enemy players back to their towers to discover their locations. ALL the maps in the game become a possible battleground for this but it can be controlled week to week by IMC. Players that do NOT want to participate can simply switch off of channel 1, but if they attempt to switch back to channel 1 then they are first warped to their guildhangout where pvp is switched back on. This stops anyone using alternate channels and non-pvp to travel, scout, or avoid combat for advantages.
Beneficially this concept uses mostly already existing content. All thatâs required to implement something like this is for the channel switching properties to be developed and mat collecting at towers.
It also gives everyone a purpose for fighting, not just mindless violence, but real reasons for the guilds to be at war with one another.
Honestly I might make a new thread for this one. Itâs been rattling around in my head for a few weeks now.
All design should focus on FUN as a primary factor. If something is not fun for players then it should be redesigned in order to make it fun. If something is deliberately boring then it really REALLY needs to have a good reason for it. Templars have no good reason for being so bad. They have no good reason for being zero fun to make. They have no good reason for being restricted so hard. And they become a disappointing reminder to the owner of the Templar everytime theyâre seen in the lodge.
Itâs sad and should be remedied. Mechanics that cause negative feelings eventually pile on top of each other enough to cause people to just give up on the game. Tree of Savior makes the error of placing far too many negative feelings in the players and not enough positive ones.
Players should be smiling. If a mechanic doesnât make a player smile then it better have a good reason for it.
I stopped reading at your âtoo many guildsâ rant at the beginning.
This system is made so we donât see people running around with a 1 man guild or guilds that quickly become a failure because half their members are dead.
And on the other hand, these member restrictions are there so you wonât have 1 guild with 100 or so actual players, dominating every aspect of the game. This system works in games where each individual character must be added to the guild, but not in ToS.
Iâm not defending IMC because I definitely hate their ignorance and lack of communication, but this system is better than what most modern MMOs could achieve.
Neither of those are particularly good explanations.
1 man or small guilds have never been a problem in any mmo, those that make them simply give up on them and join one when they canât figure out how to recruit members.
Member restrictions arenât stopping us, we have 2 Templars and are simply swapping members between the two guilds while weâve always used Discord for chat anyway. For those unwilling to manage multiple Templars itâs just creating a disadvantage, and it only gives guild leaders an incentive to refuse low level players entry to guilds, removing an aspect of the game from their reach that would provide them with friends and social groups that would increase their likelyhood of sticking with the game until the higher levels. The vast majority of players currently quit around the 140-170 level area.
Well, before IMC wants to fix the guild system, they should settle other issues that require immediate action as exemplified by the already known bad game optimization. Aweoo, the idea is as good as one of many that have already been filed, ignored and lost in this forum.
The main problem I see here is the lack of communication and empathy of the company on the continuous errors unresolved, and deaf. Then there is the scourge of conformism applied at all levels, that today, if you ordered eat crap, you will eat the good conformist as ignorant and white knight.
Good debates are those where all parties put forward their arguments meaningful and base, including GM representatives, publishers and developers of video game (would stand well in different languages, the world is not only English and not all that world needs to learn * is another fallacy of our world *). Until an official survey of IMC of the guild system (and other things) in the forum would be nice.
Some time ago, I submitted a post of suggestions that I think nobody bothered to read (like many other people). Personally, Iâm bored with the game by the absence of all the fun; the sad and terrible RO2 have some fun, the old Lineage 2, AION, etc. I am playing an online ⌠but only as an bad offline. Its sad to say the forum of ToS is more fun than the game.
Communication complaints should really go in a different thread. The topic is the guild system. This is going in a wildly different, offtopic, and somewhat entitled direction. Donât hijack the thread for an unrelated complaint.
Iâm sorry, but what I meant is that even to debate any issue, if nobody of the company reads us, we were in the same situation.
And yes, I put my idea at the time. Looks like you pose, only more ambitious (perhaps too). It was in the post of suggestions, it may be too that each game map is conquistable by a guild, but, really, it would interesting (reminds me of what happened in the Anime log horizon and games like Final Fantasy Tactics Advance).
Still, they must first give the opportunity to organize guilds without being certain profession and level. I did not know the limit of characters, but thatâs a huge problem.
This perhaps can be arranged with some skills that can increase the limit or a âmodern historicalâ system between a powerful guild (would the royal family) and several small (noble families).
Of that circle, from time to time organize itself some kind of voting system between them and choose the leader and main guild (the royal family). It is obvious that the guild that have more âpointsâ of the circle, will have more vote in the reunion (im remembering Disgaea and the crazy assambly hall).
Sorry my English, is what happens when you have to write it without knowing it.
[quote="Akanechan]-Modify the guild system. It makes no sense that you have to be a
certain kind of character and a certain level to form one: should be
universal and that anyone with the necessary requirements to form it (eg
certain amount of silver and some object such as in the RO). With this,
disable the neutral status of the guilds (in the real world, everyone
has enemies and allies) and make cities and maps conquerable, that is,
ruled by guilds and decide the winners taxes with other things (same in
Final Fantasy Tactics Advance).[/quote]
Theyâre reading, theyâre just not participating in debate. Theyâre not about to have company people potentially getting into petty arguments or debates with baiting 15 year olds.
I donât think a feudal system of royalty and lords fits the post apocalyptic world that the revelators inhabit, not to mention that theyâre already labelled as regular people that have happened down the path of revelators due to their dreams.
Voting and politics and all of this stuff isnât really in keeping with the current remnants of humanity basically being on the very brink of surviving in a war against the plant monsters right now. The majority of them donât have time to be worried about the politics of the situation theyâre in, theyâre either soldiers from existing factions too busy fighting back the out of control world tree and its spawned monsters to care about the people who happen to be hierarchically in charge or theyâre peasants fleeing to whoever has the most soldiers to create safezones in the chaos thatâs been happening for four years now.
Thereâs no need to overcomplicate it. The existing guilds as monetary factions seeking to make a profit is fine. What is required however is an incentive that drives the guilds to war with one another, thatâs where a rare resource that can be farmed by guilds comes in, giving incentive to have guild wars using the kinds of mechanics I outlined. I donât think politics are an incentive for people to war with one another when theyâre already on the edge of destruction, but basic survival needs like profit that can be put towards the war-footing and food? Thatâs a good incentive driver.
I kinda see politics as a feature that youâd expect to see in the emerging world AFTER weâve solved he Medzio Diena disaster currently plaguing the world weâre in. The problems of the new world when thereâs no longer a constant threat from the plant monsters and out of control world tree.
Iâm hoping that theyâve been biting the bullet ever since they told us they were working on multicore and networking fixes in that announcement long ago.
Either they are and when the eventual fruition of that work comes to light then significant payoffs will occur, not to mention the release of the devs buried in that work being able to get to work on the rest of the game again, or theyâre not and the path the game is currently on will always be the same.
Iâm going to continue believing the first because I donât want to believe the second. Itâs certainly a possibility though. I definitely like the idea that a couple of the core devs have been buried in the backend of the game rather than all these other features that have taken so long to see changes for. It would explain a lot about the slowness of other work if major team leaders and/or the most experienced staff are busy with what was originally promised.
Anyone that believes otherwise should really just quit I guess because thereâs no sense in continuing in that case. I choose to believe they didnât just lie, and if it turns out that they did then that simply means no longer looking at future IMC content while telling others about their ethics. Time will tell, itâs definitely preferable to believe them though.
It would be better than just focus on what is already in the game and resolve the problems
I do love a lot of the game, but there are several things that displease pretty
one of them is the guild system
