That’s true. They might basically do nothing and then the game dies off really, really fast when players notice nothing happened and that endgame will be broken forever thanks to all the crap people got via exploits.
The guilds involved should be ■■■■■■■ terrified of either of these scenarios. Everything is going down.
No, all i’m saying is that people who are innocent should not get punished just because their guild mates are doing something wrong.
Who’s the smarter and more civilized one : The one saying “everyone should get punished, ■■■■ the innocents who get caught in the crossfire, collateral damage is acceptable. If a single person does something wrong, ban everyone.” or the one saying “only the guilty should get banned.”?
I’m allowed to say anything i want to you as long as it’s not against the forum rules or against the law.
I never claimed that magic is needed to improve the situation
Correction : These are the three options you can see.
However, as we’ve already determined in point 1) you’re not a very smart nor civilized thinker (if you were smart or civilized in thinking you wouldn’t even have dared suggesting the “fck everyone, even the innocents”-bans), thus chances are high you missed solutions that are less harming to the innocent players.
It seems you only see and care about the most direct and most “barbaric” solutions (ban everyone/wipe the server/allow cheating) that don’t care about innocents being harmed in the process (hence being barbaric). However, quite often the direct solutions are not the best ones.
That being said : IF we continue this talk we should do this in the other topic, 
Answer the question or get out of my face. In an environment where the GMs either:
Lack the manpower to use function server log and cheat detection tools effectively, or
Lack these tools entirely and must rely almost entirely on player-made screenshots and videos to detect cheating and exploits
One of the above things (or both of them) have to be true for ToS to be in the state it is in. This is self-evident and it is not to be contested or debated. The GMs cannot do the things you want them to do for one of the above reasons. Accept that moving forward or stop trying to talk with me.
How do you resolve the situation, given this dire set of complications? There are three options:
Massive ban waves that can and will inflict collateral damage but generally instill enough terror in the player base to make further cheating unattractive
Wipe the server
Formally allow cheating.
If you have an option #4, that’s about the only thing you’re allowed to say to me. I don’t want to hear any more non-specific, non-solution horse ■■■■ from you that revolves around things magically getting better because reasons. If you can’t provide option #4, you’re not smart enough to communicate with me, and I’m going to copy paste this exact post at you every time you try.
If you cannot debate me, I will not talk with you anymore. I don’t think you’re good enough or intelligent enough to discuss this matter, or any matter, with me, because I’ve got you in a corner and you can do nothing. You have no solution, and nothing to offer.
No, these things do not neccessarily have to be true to have TOS in the state it is currently in. Again there are many possibilities that you missed.
How is it self-evident when there are many other possibilities you haven’t even looked at? You seemingly only go for the most-direct assumptions without even thinking for second that there might be other reasons that are not immediately obvious.
Again, i have every right to say to you whatever i want as long as it is not against the rules/the law.
But since you won’t stop crying, my solution #4:
step 1: Determine whos guilty by digging through logs.
step 1.1 : If the guilty can not be determined via logs due to lack of tools, develop the tools. Simple.
step 1.1.1 : If not enough manpower to develop the tools, (temporarily) hire more people to develop the tools. Again, simple.
steb 1.1.2 : If hiring other people is not acceptable, stop game updates for a few weeks, recognize that anti-cheat measures are more important to keep the game alive than updates for a short time and focus on developing the tools to analyze logs easier (shouldn’t take longer than 1~2 weeks). After that is done, continue developing the game.
step 2 : Use the tools to only ban the guilty.
There, done. Was that so hard to come up with?
Alright! Desu drama! I was waiting for this
I have a question for you guys - How do you put up with being in a guild where your fellow guildmates will openly KS one another? This happened quite a few times to me during maven peak hours. I’d have people from Desu in my party and then other Desu members would start another party and just come and destroy the place.
If anyone did that in any guild I was in, I would IMMEDIATELY leave or get the people kicked. But I guess the guild is so good that nobody really cares if they are treated like this
(Of course this didn’t happen every time though. Once we actually without communication effectively split the map and idk about them but we wound up getting almost 1.5x the exp we were getting when we were the only people in the map)
Uh yes you did:
All the members of his group are in “top guilds”, aren’t they? According to YOU, that means they use spectra. But as I said before, that is literally impossible with Saintone’s build.
And I’m seriously confused here. Title of my post? What post? The person you quoted isn’t even me. Did you get the wrong person or something?? I honestly don’t know what you’re talking about, lol.
The only thing I can vaguely interpret from your incoherence is this: If you’re trying to say that the bug is nothing new… ok. But so what? You’re the one caught abusing it here. Stop deflecting. Your only argument against this is “every other top guild does it too”, but clearly that isn’t true (see: Saintone’s group). What evidence do you have to even begin to prove this? If other people are abusing the bug, great, BAN THEM TOO. But these “other people” strawmen are completely irrelevant to the topic at hand here - i .e. you are a bug abuser and deserve to be banned.
If you actually read my reply correctly, you’ll see that I said nothing about your guild and the alleged duping or channel crashing. There’s no proof of it, so I didn’t comment on it. So yes, my only legitimate complaint is your spectra bug abuse - I.E. THE ONLY THING I COMMENTED ON IN THE FIRST PLACE.
Clearly you’re lumping me together with all the people your guild has beef with because you keep thinking I said things I never did. But sorry - I’m not in a top guild, nor do I know any of the people you listed. I literally just read this thread and commented because you seem like a self-righteous ■■■■ who’s full of ■■■■.
I like step 1.1.2. We already covered the others you suggested at length, and how IMC would have taken those measures by now if they could. Thank you.
Given that 1.1.2 is pretty clear the only option IMC is in a position to make use of, how do you feel about all of the recent, content-related news that is obviously eating up their development hours?
I just recently joined Desu and pretty much was unaware of the amount of hate they had. I’ve world boss’d a bit with them, ET and some other pve content and havent seen any form of exploiting. Maybe its a misunderstanding, maybe its a couple of players people dont like. As far as bugs go, you cant dupe, theres no possible way right now despite of what you heard. Not going to defend/attack anyone since I really dont know.
What I do know is, even though its like 7v1 guild wise, toxic players screaming toxic stuff when I finally do die or 20 people camping an entrance I am having the time of my life and haven’t had this much fun since the game released.
Me and a couple players have been a one PT wrecking crew and haven’t had much resistance until we get severely outnumbered.
Smiling from ear to ear right now.
As far as I know, there is no hard evidence yet of Desu (in general) exploiting duping/channel crashing bugs in this post (video/photos please).
However, the druid (Nulight) in Desu should be banned as an example since there is evidence of him openly abusing it.
** Also poor Saintone and especially AzuraWilon being brought up when they aren’t really related to it at all.
No, you and Undertale are alright.
Again, I am doing this without malice. At least, I can say that personally, and be able to sleep at night. Not that I sleep but hat’s not the point.
Nulight, Kirito, and Mesmerized (Kirito running two accounts). They get IMC to pass judgement at or at the very least publicly explain themselves on why they acted that way, then I am satisfied.
I might just be weird.
First of all : please keep in mind that i didn’t mean that “you’re not intelligent/civilized/etc” personally, it’s just heat of the moment and i don’t really mean it, personally i’ve nothing against you. We probably just have different opinions on how to resolve things.
I wish they’d focus on anti-cheat methods before any more development, or at least do something after they finish up the last two R8 class updates. I hope after the merge with the KTOS development branch is done IMC has a bit more free ressources/manpower (since NA/EU and KR TOS won’t have to be developed individually anymore) to do something against exploits and cheaters.
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Crucify Nulight! Burn him on the cross as an example of the only Druid 2 on the server using Spectra!
On a serious note, I actually defended Saintone, not only is he a druid C1 but I also said he does not abuse it. Azura shouts selling spectra advertising it, which greatly contributes to every Druid C2 having druid within 2 days.
Just waiting for the official IMC thread that shows our guild is not duping or channel crashing. I doubt it matters anyways, you children would never admit it, even if IMC themselves proved we’re innocent. I guess we’ll see every person with druid C2 banned though.
i actually got my Spectra about 2 months ago with my wife, and back then i found the very same bug spoken here. perm immunity.
it can be recreated again, and again without any issues at all. and i back then when i accidentally found it out during a run in saalus reported it to imc.
i told them step by step how to recreated it in written form, gave them recorded video how it is done step by step again.
showing them every info you would ever need, and what happened?
we still got the same bug and nothing has been done for it regardless of how game breaking it is.
yawn Unsubstantiated claims from a nobody from a trash guild.
Enjoy your ban. /20ch
You’re implying Saintone cheats and exploits Druid2 spectra bug?
I’m curious (as someone who’s trying to beat floor 7), please enlighten me when a team should switch out a member/character and how they would use druid 2 spectra immunity after 6th floor (because pre-7th is pretty easy… I doubt they’d need to switch for this) all the way to floor 15 (whether its done once or twice or whichever floor they needed a switch to druid 2).
Wouldn’t there be a problem (I’m assuming you are referring to Saintone’s team) of someone having to run 7+x amount of floors while putting their team at risk as a 4-man?
They also have lots of photo/video/stream evidence of being on the most difficult floors without druid 2. If they really did cheat, I don’t see why they would put so much attention on themselves. They just share way too much for me to believe this is the case.
If cheating has become that shameless, it’s really necessary for IMC to take drastic action. If it ends up with everyone exploiting without any punishments, the new pvp systems are dead on arrival and the pve endgame is pointless. Who wants to start playing a game where fair players don’t have a chance against widespread cheating?
Desu is just a bad guild that needs to exploit bugs to get any thing done because they can’t do it legit. There’s always a bad seed guild in every game and in ToS it’s Desu.
It’d be possible if it weren’t for the fact that Saintone streams 6 days a week on clockwork (so is Sunday cheat day?!).
That being said, I haven’t personally watched his stream in a while… so who knows, maybe he goes offline everyday for 1-2 hours now, just to secretly abuse the spectra bug in ET!
… Not like most people watch his stream for ET, or anything. /s