actually i got high SPR on my wizard. i can say at lvl 175 now, I can grind and questing without need to rest at all. 90SPR and 240+ INT right now, and some CON. now hp only 8.9k. using plate armors
GZ.
I could probably go full int fencer and still be fine till earth tower. But that doesnt make it an effective or optimal build.
There are also full SPR fletchers out there, but that doesn’t mean that this kind of build is good or even very competetive in pvp. They will always lose vs a fletcher with str/dex.
SPR can just be replaced with mana potions atm, so every point spent there is lost dmg. (except endgame catas for blockpen)
SPR is nice to have, but it isn’t NEEDED. If any stat needs a boost, its SPR, and not INT.
I don’t think you understood my point. There are 2 modifiers in the whole wizard class, one of them is quickcast, other one is Rune Of Ice. Both of them are Circle dependent not stat dependent. Rune Of Ice is only useful with cryokino combo so its a very limited build.
Each Int Gives 1 matk. Nothing else.
On the other hand, physical classes have A LOT OF damage modifiers, most basic one is Critical. Yes it requires you to allocate points in to dex but when you crit you deal 1.5 of your damage so:
Each Str gives 1 physical damage and 1 crit damage.
For Each of your crits 1 Str adds 2.5 damage.
In the end magic damage is bound to falloff lategame.
I do accept magic classes have great CC potential, but taking the CC path already leaves you with very low damage. Take cryo3 crono3 for example, I haven’t seen even one of them not struggling soloing things. They already lack damage.
Going DPS or Burst mage path, usually wiz3ele3warlock, you will have only one reliable CC which will be Sleep. I don’t see this class being CC heavy.
There is a reason why most Mage players go Con heavy builds, its because they find int useless.
I know you will come up with things like Flame Ground does 30 hits so each int=30 damage but yeh, like physical classes don’t have multi hit abilities.
That will be all, please tell me if you don’t agree with me, I am open for discussions.
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Okay, so. You’re flat out wrong about the multipliers. Magic has elemental modifiers AND a +50% boost against ghosts.
Then on top of that as people have said: crit rate requires dividing your stats and is also off set by the ability to miss. And I’m not 100% sure about this because I’m a cleric, but I’m pretty sure magic has better multihit options (aka late game scaling) than STR.
Phys builds don’t constantly crit, that is the thing you’re not considering.
Those 2.5dmg more don’t do anything for the rest of the time when you don’t crit.
[quote=“eralp96, post:23, topic:230212”]
Going DPS or Burst mage path, usually wiz3ele3warlock, you will have
only one reliable CC which will be Sleep. I don’t see this class being
CC heavy.[/quote]
Not sure why you’re coming up with an example nobody is even talking about.
“We should add an additional cc chance to INT since burst mages barely benefit from it. Let’s just all ignore the fact that it will make cc mages absolutely broken”
[quote=“eralp96, post:23, topic:230212”]
There is a reason why most Mage players go Con heavy builds, its because they find int useless.[/quote]
those aren’t usually burst mages, those builds are either cc heavy for pvp (since cc is really powerfull by itself already), use meteor or other high base-dmg skills, or are build as support mages. And yes, INT doesn’t do much for most support-mages, but that doesn’t mean that it should.
I think I think INT is fine, but if they were to add something else to it, id like +0.25 magic amp per int. Nothing major, but it will still give a little boost. Maybe even 0.2 would be better.
Well there are armor modifiers but yea, Physical classes also have them strike/slash/pierce damage more effective against other types of armor types. I was talking about the reliable modifiers that you can carry with you against every enemy. Its not that you can change the element of your dps skills on elementalist. Even tho its called elementalist its pretty much Iceamentalist.
SO, let me show you:
All calculations will be done with lvl 280 rank 7 character that has 60 bonus stat point.
therefore we will have 339 stat points to allocate.
Physical Dex Focused Build:
100 points spent in STR and 239 points spent in DEX results in:
208 STR and 314 DEX
Lets assume that your enemy has 67 crit resist, which is common at high level maps, we wont take any crit modifier such as swift step attribute, etc.
You will have around %46 crit chance, 488 physical atk, 208 physical atk.
Average damage with a %100 attribute skill:
4880.54+4881.50.46+2080.46=695.92*2=1391,84 damage on average.
Moving to Mage:
The 200 CON PVE build. (20-22k hp)
158 points in CON, 181 points in INT;
Ends up with 379 INT.
659 magic atk.
659*2=1318 damage on average.
Now the Damages look very close, but physical classes have debuffs that can remove enemy defense and debuffs that can increase certain damage types giving them a lot more potential. On top of everything, Mage weapons give a lot lower magic atk compared to physical atk gained from weapons such as spears and swords.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that mages are weak, I’m just telling that they falloff lategame.
hey hey hey, slow down I’m not saying that int should give CC, I’m telling that int should give some magic amplification maybe every point or every 2 points.
You’re comparing a glass cannon build to a non-glass cannon build. And the glass cannon is dealing the same amount of damage?
Oh, and where is the CON for the Phys dmg class? We’re calculating dmg here, right?
You’re starting your calculations with:
Mage: 181 dmg-stat points**
Phys: 339 dmg-stat points**
Yea no sh1t, Mage will loose that comparisson.
Let me correct that for you:
Phys with also 158 points in CON, resulting in 199 CON after boni.
Leaving 181 points to be distributed between STR and DEX (the same value you used for int)
Keeping your ratio from DEX : STR, we end up with 120 DEX and 61 STR
That means we end up with:
131 STR
153 DEX
153 crit rate -> 36,9% crit chance
131 Critical Attack
411 base dmg
Using your formula we end up with:
4110.631+4111,50,369+1310.369=535.1685*2=1070,337 dmg on average
Lets compare that 1070 dmg of a swordsman to the 1318 dmg of that mage, hm?
1- both builds will have almost same hp
no con swordsman = 16416 hp with a very high evasion
no con mage = 5472 hp
2- dex is also a defensive stat
3- most dps warriors dont even go for con
4- no con mage = dead
show me one mage without con that can survive anywhere in the game, I can show you many swordmans and archers without con.
one magic amp every int or every other int is too much… .25 or .2 per int is more realistic.
- Mages are raged. Ever played a game where Warriors and Mages had the same HP? It’s not how balancing works here.
- Dex works only vs phys, int always hits. Relying on dex as def is not an option. You will die to mages.
- most dps warriors will have a problem later on. We’re talking lategame here.
- no con anything -> dead (except cata, but they go spr for block pen)
Here, go watch other videos as well, dps swordmans dont go for con, and they survive.
Most of this bosses attacks are magic as well.
… and they explode when just looking at mages in pvp, once a burst spell or cc hits them. Yea, I watched these kind of videos aswell. What about you?
Mages are still remain the better choice for earth tower as a dps. You’re point was what exactly? That it’s possible? Sure.
That it’s so superior to an AOE-DPS-Mage that an entire stat needs to be buffed? I hardly think so.
I get it, It doesnt matter how invalid your arguments have been, you just want your class to get buffs and be op, because you want it.
Fact is: Int is a strong stat. Combining int with cc is a huge mistake, since cc is strong enough already and will only lead to broken builds when buffed and/or tied to a dmg stat.
As Abraham Lincoln said: “You can’t win an argument on the internet”
Talking about lategame pve content and you suddenly jump to pvp, huh?
Pvp is a different story, if you were to ask me it needs its own balancing.
My argument:
Mages will falloff lategame because of the nature of int and the lack of magic damage modifying debuffs.
You made me compare classes which I did.
You made me prove irrelevant points which I also did.
Earthtower curently is the endgame content that we have, as you also see a warrior was fine doing it without con while mages needed minimum 100 con as stat.
But right, its internet.
[quote=“eralp96, post:38, topic:230212”]
Talking about lategame pve content and you suddenly jump to pvp, huh?
[/quote]Maybe you should take a look at my postings again, if u think I wasn’t considering pvp. I was talking lategame, not only pve-lategame.
My argument:
Int is not tied to any other stat like str and dex. Therefore you can allocate more points into int. Therefore you benefit sooner of the higher bonus statpoints you get when having 100, 200, 400 etc int. You have seen in previous postings what the dmg results are. There is where the int scaling is hidden. Not in some rng-crit mechanic.
That gets even more crazy when the levelcap is raised. You always hit. Your dmg is constant.
Now to the problem we’re having in understanding each other here:
You got some sort of hung up on the idea, that each mage needs ~200 Con to survive, and therefore int needs to be buffed, to compensate for the lost dmg. (please correct me if I’m wrong)
What you are not considering is the fact, that buffing int might solve the DPS problem of high-con mages, but with the same change you’re buffing every single int-based low- or no-con glass-cannon build out there. Mages, Clerics etc. It would create more balancing issues than it would actually solve.
I say int is fine. I actually think it’s pretty strong, when compared 1:1 to dex and str.
The problem looks more like to be the survivability of mages. And again: correct me if I’m wrong, but buffing base-HP or hp/con scaling, so you end up with more free stat-points that can be allocated in int could be a less inversive solution to your problem.
This math is completely ruined by the fact that most high damage classes have really high hits on their spells: Magic Missile, Lightning, Warlock in general (I’ve heard), Fireball, Flameground, Psychic Pressure, Gravity Pole, etc. The spells that are meant to hurt hit hard, a lot, and on a lot of targets. Sure, Wiz seems to be a little weaker on the single target in general, but it makes up for it wonderfully by being able to drop mobs of almost any size and never have to worry about getting close and personal. It’s also easy to pick up a rank or two in support classes without violating the integrity of its build. Nobody will say no to Linker and Thaum in my eperience.
The purpose of classes is not to do the same thing in a different way, it’s to do something different that’s relevant to the game.
This is flatly wrong. Late game swordman tree depends on 2h sword (slash) and spear (pierce) to deal damage. And those 2 types cannot be switched. The classes that can switch weapon are 1h defensive class (pelt/rode)
Have you considered range vs melee aspect? Mages don’t aim to have same HP as swordman, because they can hit from afar
Magic says hi
0/50 top PvP slots in KR, so much for DPS swordman
Same as DPS swordman.
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