Tree of Savior Forum

Team Dex Vs Team Str ( Trash talking, discussion, roasting each other, math magician war ) Aka Debate STR Vs DEX

Class and Rank Swordsman
#649

before damage are applied, base values are required. do you even? this is just simplicity at its finest, where the fact that you cannot DO multiplication without doing addition.

oh well, that’s how your logic works. i feel sad for you.

edit 1: Damage formulas are already made on-point by many people here, not the base point.

i’ll give you one best example;

doesn’t matter if your 9999 STR or 9999 dex for calculating ‘Blessing’ Buff damage because it is Flat. how you calculate the output between STR over DEX? it’s by understand their very basic details, and are case-to-case.

enemy has high-block rate? STR > DEX
enemy has high EVA? DEX > STR
Monster hit hard? > DEX > STR (via EVA)

these are essentials, but you, alongside with other people only sees numbers. and the bigger they are, the better you think they do

Edit 2:

Blessing @ 175 damage
pouncing @ 25 hits for full duration

assuming 1a. (high Eva monster)

STR > hits 10 / 25 = 1750 damage
DEX (base stat increasing hit rate) > hits 25 / 25 = 4375 damage

assuming 2a. (high Block rate monster)

STR > (base stat increasing Block pen) hits 25 / 25 = 4375 damage
DEX > hits 10 / 25 = 1750 damage

Did you see their Base value now? it’s not just numbers or raw damage. as someone said it here, different scenarios offers different results. and the post you responded, DEX has 1 point advantage over STR.

making DEX > STR with 33% RATE being better as future-proof STAT.

#650

Spear throw is best used in melee range…

#651

Yes i rerolled my meta high str swordie. Its not for me cuz i dont like dying.

#652

Holy ■■■■! Please tell me you’re using google translate.

#655

^as he stated above spear throw is best used in melee range for you to not lose the spear , this makes the attribute somehow useless but anyways its uses may vary in different situations.

spear throw is not the one that makes hop3 appealing but the spear mastery that gives % scaling damage to medium sized monsters but the translation is kinda confusing because it says it works when using skills so it may not work in normal attacks so idk

#656

:monkey_face: :gun: :flag_gb: IM COMING HARAMBEEEEE1!!! :gun:

#657

Anyway, This is a video that was made by me today to show u my Swordsmen filling the DPS role(to be honest I dont even need those cubes now and is overload with them, done with my 2x piece since 2 weeks+ ago…but still resuming my leadership helping guildies getting them, I am going 10F now, while my other guild members are actively getting 10F cubes, theres 1 party is going 15F now lol, 5F is child’s play but nevertheless)

I purposely went with subpar party to showcast the ability of PVE DPS swords that has HIGH BLOCK PENETRATION (all et mobs has high block rate and high CRIT RESIST, look at so little yellow appearing, the fletcher is a 3:1 DEX STR and well equipped but no full CRIT is showing, 7k is from hers while 11k without DoV stacked and 15-26k with DoV stacked is from me) and High HP (30k hp) that (2:1 str con).

The hyper offensive top PVE swordman class DOPPEL as main dps (NO PELT) alongside another ele3 wl and don’t have chronomancer in pt while carrying a fletcher for cubes, and the party is not full 280, is a mix of 260 and 270s. I do all the voice commands and leading in these low levels ET (5F).

Earth Tower 1F -5F
NO CHRONOMANCER
CARRYING A FLETCHER
MAIN AOE DPS CARRY= 1 ELE3 WL + 1 DOPPEL(str)
DIEV lvl 263

Doppel Earth Tower 1F-5F (NO CHRONOMANCER, GOT FLETCHER)
1x Diev PD(Lvl.263) - Heal/ OP statue
1x Ele 3 Warlock (Lvl.278) - Main AoE DPS
1x KinoCryo (Lvl.275) - CC Support
1x Ranger3 Fletcher3 (Lvl.280) - ???
1x Dupper-solder no Pelt(Lvl.280) - Main AoE DPS(str) - Leader

Normally this kind of PT will just fail =)) and laughable if mentioned to someone that follows the meta with Chronomancer and Warlocks =))

Of course, get ready for that FULL DEX trolls response.

(I have other ET videos in the same channels too, like 3 of them doing with different party and the strongest 2x ele3 1x doppel 1x chrono 1 PDx party have 1 minute and 20 sec left on 1F lol)

Now u guys can use all my videos to show ur frens that Doppel is a hyper offensive AoE classes so they stopped discriminating u, there is a guy aKi- is moving forward to 10F now (not with this line up in the videos of course), u can thanks me later.

and ignore that full dex trolls, for real he has no idea how to build a character, his DEX theorycrafting is mostly PvP base and he doesnt use catagoon to PvP but Doppel…which is a PvE master race…i duno what to say lol

1 Like
#658

Why is monster evasion coming into damage formula when that is the most irrelevant stat ever offset by higher level plate /leather gloves?

STR > DEX in statistic and is better to be invested in STR or even better Con

because str affect Physical damage + critical damage.
Swordsman have a scaling 30% additional to every str bonus.
There is also rank bonus with STR. which is why adding str is ideal the best stat, next to Con to invest on.

The problem lies with DEX only affecting evasion and Crit rate and obviously it is a non scaling stat in swordsman.

So i don’t see why dex is future proof.
It’s more of a worth to invest at later part.

Definitely not for evasion as there is a 85% cap. I mean yes it will save you tons of pot verus Physical Monster with low accuracy the long run. There is still the RNG it will kill you if it triggers the 15% of hitting.
Like a random spiral arrow which face rekt you if you are not wearing plate.
Spion Archers variant

Also most of the time that kills swordmans aren’t this but mage mobs. Hitting too hard.

The reason why when you have “high str” it turn diminishing in general build is because “More strength base phyiscal damage” VS additional damgae from critical 50% + crit damage on that point is diminishing> so Investing Dex from that point make it more worth while. Which is why we kept a balance. Evasion is best treated as a soft cream topup.

This does not apply to PVP. Where PVP investing High dex to reduce hits missing is better.

#659

You should run ET with chixi for comparison on Fletchers. :^).

Subpar Fletcher in varena are really bad losing to QS 3 with GC 90% of the time in mission.#justmyobservation.

I forget to mention fletchers are terrible in ET, because they are single target machines. Should add in cannoners/ SR for comparision because they are the king of AOES. on archer class =X

#660

Chixi is…in the video, haha.

If you are from Varena you should know who Chixi is…the number 1 Fletcher in all WB and Dullahan since June.

Even she herself claim Fletcher is not good in ET, shes my closest friend so now that I am done with my cubes I can carry ET 5F for her.

Yes, I brought a FLETCHER SO SHE CAN LEECH AND STILL FINISHES ET, and WITHOUT A CHRONO!

I wonder if that FULL DEX TROLLS has anything to show…or i guess nobody needs him because his full dex build can’t CRIT ET mobs and most attacks being blocked being ET mobs has so high block rate…and is doing 1k-2k white dmg?? lol

#661

Din’t notice it. My bad. Yes hogma have retardly high block rate. ESP on ET.

You will need about 380 str ++ to fully block pen it due to the fact archer gains less block pen to swordsman.

#662

No worries, the reason I posted the video is because Chixi is being a leecher in the video(lmao) while -1 ele warlock, and no chronomancer, and the healer is 260+ lvl

And we finishes it multiple times while have comfortable timer left-overs.

yes, Hogma has ridiculous BLOCK RATE AND CRIT RESIST, full dex swords is going to do close to no dmg i can tell u (cant crit, gets blocked).

It just SHOWS ALOT OF THINGS.

#663

well… 1-5 is literally a stroll in the park if there is 1-2 AOE clearer 1 healer

The rest can actually eat popcorn while waiting… prolly just barrier out the important objective or points or just CC bot at certain floors for easier life…

Yes that issue was well known that fletchers suck at ET. Might change with mergen who knows.

#664

A stroll in a park lol…but u can see how many Swordsman unable to do it because…rofl, they build their char wrongly.

Mergen is bad, all the top archers is complaining and worrying about their R8.
But that’s not the main point, haha.

#665

well it’s either mergen … or going back onto others to make up for the lack of aoe anyway. They haven really tested out mergen with enchanter interaction yet… soooo no clue. Might be something similar to muskeeter + linker combos. Basically they are shiet alone. On ET basis.

Either way back to the swordsman point yes.

The game still sucks for swordsman and it will still suck at least until you are a meta whore running meta r8 builds. Then at least they don’t suck that bad at that point. Like fencer C3 > draggon c2 > rest of the class.
Notice they still did not showcase ET runs. Mostly just WB/ Generally solo play.

Stats allocation wise. if you are running full DEX/High dex. Forget about ET. If you are fine with that.

Which i kinda agree with jynxie that most will reroll regardless STR or DEX, because all other classes offers better loooooooooooool.

#666

yes, its sadly swordsmen cant have the best of both PVP and PVE, thats why the efficient and meta builds are

DOPPEL = PVE
CATAGOON = PVP

STR = PVE (ET, WB)
DEX = PVP

CON = USEFUL IN BOTH, but is not OP UNLIKE invested in SPELL base classes

so yea, if u want to use dex and doesnt care about WB ranking or ET equipment, make a S3 C3 Dragoon with DEX with some CON, they rocks TBL (they do)

but please no more full dex on doppel nonsense

#667

Isn’t that the case that people go hop3 is due to Finestra 15 so they can reduce their needed dex to add to achieve higher crit rate =X

#668

Dex without friend
Str with friendsss

#669

Oh forgot about that but yeah also that lol

Btw finestra used to have % scaling before right? Guess it got removed due to the fact that all swords used to build full dex before and made the buff too op with its % scaling but since we are having a diversity if builds today i hope they add 1% crit rate / lvl

#670

Was doing Mirtis around 2/10pm - 3pm.

My crit dmg on Mirtis with Cyclone (no dex added, str con)
31,211 and 30,487 yellow color belongs to me
4,457 belongs to Chixi, other 3 is support.

As usual, down Mirtis Rank 1

Server maintenance soon, salty time for DEX player, continue ur theory-craft claims or jokes making, while I kept on moving forward.