Tree of Savior Forum

Team Dex Vs Team Str ( Trash talking, discussion, roasting each other, math magician war ) Aka Debate STR Vs DEX

Class and Rank Swordsman
#462

Because I think there are people trying to prove viability while the other is trying to prove efficiency, that is, mixing
double standards. Of course, the common sense would be that it is about
efficiency, but it is important to classify what the heck you’re trying
to prove. You might be wrong or right depending on which premiss you
start from.

This is the problem.

Some people are arguing in pve vs pvp arguments. They are not simply compatible.

Others are saying dex is viable due to evasion alone, but this isnt that simple.

An example of a pro-efficiency argument, at least in my point of view,
is that the most efficient way of DPSing is by dealing the highest
possible damage while having an efficient survivability, without clerics
being the best choice, if available.

This is situational.

Highest possible damage in a very short time is simply duo Dethrone.

Highest possible damage in a long time is a DOV stacked Doppel3, with either barbarian or highlander to support it.

In pvp, dmg isnt the only things that matter, the discussion would go elswhere.

1 Like
#463

Yup Im agree with you mastah

everything is situasional, if there are some random murmilo full con tanking like a “real tank” not “half tank” + DPS
the pro-effiiciency argument will also become invalid because anyone can stand there, and doing their highest damage as much as they want, as long as they can

#464

The big problem is Situational does not exist for your TOP SWORDSMAN of his world. simply put. him > the best, that what make things hard to understand here, we even recognize how he can deal tons of damage, given the Fact himself said ‘with the help of some support specially safety zone/ ausrine buffs’.

Yet he declines that Over time Battle, him running around vs. a sustainable Damage dealer will Out DPS him.

Player Recognition and comprehension is the main issue, like how this guy dodges why he keep saying STR vs DEX, but he was STR:CON spewing words over FULL DEX.

I’ve clearly stated some facts down here

Pasted image701×589 31 KB

and when shits get real, here’s what answer you’ll get from him [quote=“akisera, post:403, topic:321139, full:true”]
I have nothing to say to you man, screenshots or evidence else you are just theory crafting.

And remember people are spending tons of silver on +15 weapons and +phy attack headgears like crazy just to get that extra 100-200 phy attack, looking down on 750+ phy attack and stating is useless just makes u look stupid =))
[/quote]

Thats your TOP SWORDSMAN for ya

#465

Idk if he even bother to click your video because it seem like he just ignored it

#466

Tbh, listening to advice from a guy who dissed Warcry because “it takes a buff slot, charging time and animation time” of course made me doubt of his advice. A skill that can give you 330 PATK in your character sheet which is nearly half of his PATK from 489 Str. Well, I just don’t know anymore.

Next is DOV. Good luck trying to use DOV without proper support since not everyone can have someone supports you the whole time. Just think of Siauliai mission where 5 DPS can be in the same room while 5 Support are in another. Even if you have decent support, lag spike still exists. Have fun standing still like a sitting duck for a few seconds with 0 defense. A Dex build will have much higher chance to survive that dreaded lag spike

Third and finally, we have R8 and more stuffs to further increase our PATK. Sure it will take time since TOS is a MMO but it is possible to do.

#467

The sheer amount of misinformation and unexperienced guess-work in this thread is unreal.

For swordsman.

It is simple. with the new rank8 base damages on skills: You put 50 CON.

PVE: Rest of your points in DEX is highest dps for anyone taking Fencer3, Dragoon2, Lancer or Murmillo.

Doppel can make an argument for STR based builds, the others cannot. It is no longer debatable and is just simply math on how the damage calculations work, no amount of multi-hitting skills on earlier classes can outdo the damage differential of the new skills critting as close to 100% of the time as possible.

END OF STORY.

PVP: You take a mixture of STR + DEX and high CON. It’s up to the player. You will need block pen to hit most high CON players. There is no ‘best’ for PVP as each way will have its own strengths and weakness’s.

Archers.

Archers are more complicated and it is extremely BUILD DEPENDENT on what stat is best.

Anything with a rank of rogue can go full STR. Otherwise, it is extremely build based on what is actually best.

3 Likes
#468

One does not simply
Heal a Zero def player.
It’s take 2 to do the job

1 Like
#469

I will further his statements by saying sword 3 cata 3 and squire is the better PvP char lol…

Not freaking Doppelsoeldner.

Bringing in DEX for PvP argument for Doppel is just so…

#470

I would rather support a wizard whom can deal exceptional AOE dps, have great amount of HP and decent def than a suicide melee maniac

#471

In PVE situation, to be honest, even a C1 skill safety zone solves all the problems.

Unless you don’t have a guild/friends, stating no support is very stupid on ET/World-boss situation.

#472

Then why the hell are u in this thread? Wrong place bro.

#473

I had some time, so I messed around with numbers in PvE:

With the current level cap, a Hop3 Dragoon using Catacombs Pike is able to hit 75% critical chance on a zero resistance target with no points invested in DEX. We’ll assume that you’re going to take a Chronomancer for targets with critical resistance. When the level cap goes up to the new cap of 330, this value will dip down to 64% so you’ll need to find another 200 Critical Rate somewhere.

Should probably think about things in a party setting too, especially if you’re with a friend who has a Marksman.

If you’re interested in the math:

T43vJDg.png1107×840

To make things simple, I opted to exclude critical resistance. Values are for the 330 cap with Dragoon 2. Critical Chance formula has been adjusted to fit.

Several things to take away from this:

  • Hitting crit cap with Build #2 results in an average damage loss for all skills except Dethrone, which sees a gain of 9.19% damage (or 2.55% if Build #1 has a Chronomancer for Quicken).
  • In your average damage rotation, a STR-based build will probably be equal or outdamage a DEX-based build if it can get off a full rotation. Otherwise if you only get off Dethrones, a DEX build will put out more damage.
  • Chronomancer’s Quicken results in a pretty substantial DPS boost to STR-based builds, the average gain being 7% across the board for all skills. Builds hitting crit cap without Quicken will see no benefit from this if your target has no resistance (obviously).
  • Sustaining 100% Critical Chance increases in value as your weapon’s damage increases. People with +15 Weapons and multiple transcendences on said weapon will probably want to cap crit ASAP.

At any rate, both builds perform about the same as far as overall DPS goes and if anything, the difference is marginal at best if you’re not rocking a god-tier weapon.

1 Like
#474

I’m interested in knowing whether a hop3-dragoon2 can potentially crit on PVP even against a Half Con/aias toons, I think Gems + finestra + high DEX + Sissel should be enough to crit but I don’t know how much. I know for a fact that NO ONE WILL GET CRIT RESIST GEM or even Critical Resist Accerssory so i’m kinda thinking that their only source of Crit Resist will only be coming from CON stat and pentamion.

#475

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1 Like
#476

Against a 150CResist target, you’re going to be seeing something like 30-40% Critical Chance which is pretty fair. If you went for some DEX, you might be able to hit closer to 50%.

1 Like
#477

It’s amazing how self-glorifying can get this far…

#478

Tell that to some yigumori something or i forgot his name who Crits with his RUSH for 3-4k each in TBL…

oh wait, sorry i forgot your server isn’t the same as ours.

but really, that Cata guy is annoying AF.

Auto attack? in TBL? did i just. . . . sorry… i just cant… i really just cant…

1 Like
#479

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1 Like
#480

so sorry if you got offended, while you were trying to say you got Full-DEX CATA and performs underwhelming. while some also got a DEX Cata but is performing in a different way…

#481

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.