Tree of Savior Forum

Team Dex Vs Team Str ( Trash talking, discussion, roasting each other, math magician war ) Aka Debate STR Vs DEX

Class and Rank Swordsman
#1124

Answering the ultimate key point now why that we say R8 is dex investment era.

@akisera Thanks for the video. This one is extremely helpful to a extend.

There is no crit gear except for main hand. I don’t consider solmiki or ET easily accessible item.
Not all main hand weapon have + 70 dex or more crit rate.

Most 2h weapons only have 3 slots for gem and it’s heavily restricted. There is no sign of Crit accessories that enables you to go leeroy with strength. As far as i can see only ET leather set provides you a flat 25 + 42 crit rate.

Thus this is the conclusion you bid good bye to your crit damage modifier. which is 1.5x or simply 50% more in general. basically Additional 5 stack of deeds in average. Might be more as it factors in skill damage.

The higher the skill damage the worse it gets.

Optimal crit rate is to be count as 760 to achieve a 80% on 330 against 150 crit resist mobs. And you will crit 100% after monstrance and quicken.

Don’t get me wrong i was in STR camp during pre 6 because i see how significant STR was early. Dex made a came back with transcend system and lack of crit rate gear. Which is why i stay netural in stats investment now.

All of this is only happening DURING R8 i must point out. Eventually i hope everyone gets the clue and understand whats happening to your future path.

#1125

I think this is kind of the main takeaway for the Swordsman class. Strength is incredibly valuable leading up to rank 6, since enemies have lower crit res and crit rate is easier to build up until this point. Speaking from experience, my 3:1 str:dex HL3 can outburst any and everything leading up to and including the level 115 dungeon.
However, beyond rank 6 it’s necessary to start building for dex due to the lack of crit rate modifiers and the ridiculous amounts of base damage r7+ skills are getting.
What this means to me is that we need to build high str for rank 1-5/6, then let the class bonuses provide you with the extra strength as you progress from 6-8. Rank 9 and beyond is unknown territory, but hopefully there will be more ways to gain more dex/crit rate through equipment and we can reach equilibrium again, assuming IMC has that kind of competence.

#1126

i like how everyone doubting IMC now…

huehuehue

behold, high CON is rank9/rank10 proof~
coz damn 50k ~100k base dmg skill in rank9/rank10
cant survive sh1t if ya dont have atleast 300k hp!

i think IMC idea for swordman is high CON coz rank skill gonna have insane base damage anyway…
some skill have flat Cri Rate like Sw3 DoubleSlash etc

hrmm…

#1127

what to do hue bro IMC is lulz.

High con is something that will not be forgotten but it turn diminishing when you have timers on boss.

I forsee that happening… and they implement a real DPS check in dungeons/ET stages.

#1128

yup, you got my point there. IMC wanted stat diversy but their weapon enchant system and item system is making us not to. Which we have to pay up for the amount of stats lacking from equipment using stats .

#1129

all these make me think, what if there is no Stat Reset or Skill Reset?

everyone will be scared to death, unsure what to do…

no1 can tell what is the best for anyone

this, can actually be, very interesting… huehuehue

#1130

If there is really no stat reset.

i can forsee three routes that might happen.

  1. Those that fked some where but salvageable. Will prolly still play on. Unless they do not care about their time invested and finding mates in here.

  2. Those that totally screw up. Most likely will quit and reroll or drop the game momentary or stop and leave their record.

3.You will see more riot mobs at imc askin for stat resets.

#1131

hrmm…

oh well, thats another topic~

so i guess we served the purpose of this thread already?

as we answered almost all the Str vs Dex question for rank8.

#1132

Or you will see 95% of the population going the same build, same gear, same skill. 4% of those with friends to carry them will have the guts to do something not on the trend, 1% for those who doesn’t care about build and just want to enjoy and do what they want.

#1133

Watch as they add some crazy STR modifiers to rank 9 skills and shift the momentum back to the STR camp. The troll is strong in IMC. They’ll never let us swordies be settled.

#1134

No problem there captain, that is actually something ‘DEX’ Builds will be looking forward, having high DEX at mid game, then power shift to STR at R9, DEX builds won’t be bothered much. infact, they will welcome it with open arms. also, they still got Base skill damage + attribute that benefits well with DEX via Crit. rate.

Where-in, early and mid game STR builds might find a hard time.

i actually wanted to have something like that happen, my dream of building a full-str Glasscannon swordie will come to live.

#1135

I’ve done such a thing before (also with manticen) with my own stats reset from STR to DEX (long ago) and yes I got my damage down, as expected, but it’s not all about damage. At least not everyone aims for raw damage only.

Thought it’s 100? Rather above average iirc, higher than demon lord bosses for sure. I take Manticen as my upper limit at crit sampling.

#1136

Demon lord bosses (280) area round 85-100,

Yea 200 manticen only has about 75 according to old stat profile. pretty sure it is correct @_@…

#1137

Isn’t that already happening, lel. The only real diversification in the game is class build, that is, if you dare step out of the meta with all the consequences.

#1138

Man, I’m loving that over 300 DEX test result actually (feckin card attachment update y u no hit my server already!!!). Satisfying.jpg

Even with just 295 DEX I’m evading WBs attacks AND skills reliably. iirc, someone, not Aki[?] claimed there isn’t such a thing as face-tanking WBs even mission bosses? Well he’s terribly mistaken. Mission bosses are laughable, simply stand in the mid of 2, cyclone, maybe get scratched 2-3 times lol. Of course I still try to manually dodge some obvious boss skills, like Marnox’s shoulder charge or Mirtis’s thunder strike (from above, electricity on the ground as cue) with simple side-step.

#1139

Finally, we can “discuss” w/o “bashing” on someone decision goin dex/str build.

Im seeing from your 1st vid (str build) at 0.14 (end of cyclone) before you put another cleave manticen hp was around 123k, the 2nd vid at 0.13 (end of cyclone) was around 157k.

Str build cyclone crit = around 26k(495STR-96DEX), Str dex 1:3 (188STR-347DEX)around 20-21k. Diff in patk each build about 400 perhaps? 800 with lv 10 dov? (1st vid patk 3532-3795, 2nd vid patk 2734-2997)
Here’s 280 R7 str-con with 35 bonus stats.

330 R8 str-con with 50 bonus stats.

330 R8 str-dex with 50 bonus stats.

Diff on str > 426+30% = 553.8 (554 patk). Bad at math someone cmiiw.

#1140

Yup that correct.

May i add there is also a difference in crit rate and crit damage
it will be 426 crit damage and 360 crit rate. on both builds.

For Str R8 builds

The Pro : 554 pattack + 426 crit damage offset 360 crit rate.

For Dex

The pro : additional 360 crit rate.

Things to note Critical damage (inital boost) is T1-3 mod which is the same as attributes. After Base is added and when you crit it includes 50% additional damage. It adds into the total addition including skills.

The question is is this more than 554 patt or in dopple terms when dov 15 is out 831 patt in difference.

You must also note that with no dex your crit caps out at 286, with monstrance and quicken it is only 400 crit rate. This is only 32 %

where as a 365 build can reach a crit rate cap of 971 with monstrance and quicken which is nearly 95% crit rate.

We are unable to compensate crit rate with item limitation, but we are able to compensate damage due to transcend which is a 80% gamble or even higher 100% if you do it over time.

Crit damage compensation comes from item as well. Key note.

#1141

well, that stats are w/o equips and cards. You can pump more to str/con if you aim for around 350-370 dex (with x8 *10 ella), for patk/hp.

#1142

Second post for Damage on skill formula explanation vs CRIT Damage,

This is the key note here especially with for example Sturtzhau

Which is 4895 in skill damage. I will keep it simple and exclude attributes because base damage/ crit proc * attributes = total damage.

I will just put deeds in 15 here and STR VS DEX difference now is 554 pattack in this case. So for example your weapon is base 2k Pattack

Crit attack i will leave it as Dex = 300 Str = 746

Base pattack for dex = 300 , str will be 554+300 = 854

Total add up damage

Dex = 2300 patt
Str = 2854 patt

Deeds is added in with 2.5

Dex = 5750
Str = 7135

now we calculate skill damage Without crit

Dex = 5750 + 4895 = 10645

Str = 7135 + 4895 = 12030

Damage with crit.

Dex = 10645 * 1.5 + 300 = 16267.5

Str = 12030 * 1.5 + 746 = 18791

Assuming both sides are going crit rate gear (+ 280 ) on party terms with monstrance + quicken. So you can assume Dex builds will crit at 90%/100

Str build going at 40%

We will average out DPS in 10 hits of Sturtzhau

Dex will crit 9/10 hits.

Dex damage = 16267.5 * 9 + 10645 = 157052.5

Str will crit about 3/10 hits

Str damage = 18791 * 4 + 12030 * 6 = 147344

This is a difference with high skill damage. That include multi hits of cyclones on level 15.

This is the problem on 330. 280 is still fine and STR > dex due to the fact you can easily boost your crit rate onto 50% which is ALOT more beneficial to strength builds. As you level up your crit rate decreases. Monster resist up as well it’s shiet.

Where as Dex builds suffer more at R7 due to low skill base damage + transcend system wasn’t ready for them.

Now enjoy the maths.

TL:DR
DEX builds benefits more due to lack of crit gear. You can compensate damage with transcend and damage gears. They give + aoe ratio too.

Where as STR builds have to run full crit gear cap. They are still facing the issue and the additional damage from crit base + crit damage will not be as effective.

for those mechanics hungry peeps here you go.

1 Like
#1143

Then we factor in defense and how crit attack value ignores it. This is why yellow numbers sometimes can get significantly higher (% wise) than white numbers on high defense enemies, or on level penalty.

#justyellowjunkie