Yes I want to nerf Hachi but you won’t meet cancer anymore. I uninstalled the game
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We get it, move along already. 
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I do not know how it should work, but it seems that just being equipped with anything that has strike type defense totally removes the strike bonus against plate … that is, 25% less damage + plate mastery defense that reduces the phisical damage taken at 5% if you are wearing 3 plate parts, 10% if it is 4 parts, + the damage reduction you have inside the arena …
now imagine this in any stupid build that people have played, like full con clerics or full con thauma shadows using shrink body to hit kill you in 2 hits,it seems fair to me
Just delete swordman classes from tbl
And Strike defense is the only one with this bug … Murmillo R.I.P.
I got a little confuse now (if Strike is consistent or not). lol
Is the Slash attack vs Slash defense displaying the same behavior as Strike then? Or Strike still has inconsistencies? D:
Also, how does the damage reduction work if you’re wearing another armor type other than Cloth? Does the damage still get reduced further as people said about Strike?
But we just talked about (look at Memester post) that Slash also gets the +25% reduced.
-> Let’s get to the point and align things so we can continue testing/finding stuff better:
Are we complaining about a mechanic that has a great disadvantages to swordsman (especially Murmilo)?
Or are we complaining about a mechanic that has inconsistencies between Strike-type defense, Slash-type defense and Pierce-type defense?
Like, not saying you’re wrong to complain. But if you report a bug saying “only Strike is bugged” but it’s displaying the same behavior as Slash and Pierce (consistent mechanic -> it’s intended or at least everything’s bugged together). Result: “Strike is working like Slash” - you’ll get ignored by devs.
If we find problems in the mechanic like, damage being reduced more than it should be -> real bug, won’t get ignored by devs.
If it’s just a too broken mechanic that hurts swordsman gameplay -> it’s a feature feedback, requesting a change won’t get you ignored by devs.
Changes can take long to reach the game… but if you report old fixed bugs, bugs that doesn’t exist, say something is bugged when it’s working according to what it should (even if it seems bad at first look) - it’s sad, I know, but your feedback will probably take even longer to be verified (or won’t be verified at all).
For example: Someone reported to Wine devs that Rabi-Ribi is crashing on Linux after a certain update. I made the favor of finding it’s highly likely to be caused by latest NVIDIA drivers for Linux that has some regressions/bugs.
Result: Forsaken, abandoned. It’s not a bug of the software, it’s a bug on NVIDIA drivers, they have more things to do.
Last post on the bug report about Rabi-Ribi was by Feb 17th and the only guy that was going to help to find the problem uses ATI card and can’t even reproduce it.
So… Sorry for the extended example text here but let’s try to find the complete thing and how it really works and what are the inconsistencies, what are the consistencies and properly report it, even if as a bug or a feature request that greatly affects swordsmen.
I don’t think anything is wrong with Strike. It looks like it’s just a case of misunderstood mechanics. I always thought armor penalties were applied to the final damage at the very end of the calculation, which is wrong apparently.
Also, how does the damage reduction work if you’re wearing another armor type other than Cloth? Does the damage still get reduced further as people said about Strike?
- Type defense boosts your pdef when you get hit by an attack of that type.
- If there’s an armor penalty, like strike vs plate, it will reduce that penalty: with 30 strike def, the strike vs plate penalty will become 10% (base - half of strike def). With 50 def for that type, it should negate the penalty completely.
And then it turns out that armor type penalties are applied to your base armor.
That Solmiki plate piece with 99 Strike def will remove the strike penalty completely and add 99 to your pdef when calculating damage from Strike attacks.
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I think it’s like that. Totally agree.
But there’s some things that are still unclear:
- Bonus damage being reduced further when you’re not using Plate but is using Strike-defense.
-> Is this true or not? Does the same happens to Slash and Pierce?
- What if you have like 100 def for that type? I believe it won’t reduce it further. Or maybe it would? Is there any possible bug or too op mechanic here?
There are more complaints in the thread but after @SamanthaRaioLaser test I’m not sure if people are testing Strike-type attack vs Slash-type defense and comparing to Stirke-type at tack vs Strike-type defense.
Not saying people are wrong or anything. But this is getting ambiguous and it will be even worse if we report it to koreans this way (due to translating an ambiguous thing :x). LOL
If there’s a bug, let’s try to find it, I can help testing on Klaipeda if people needs someone to test (altho I currently only have Pierce-type defense from Solmiki Leather Pants) and etc but… let’s everyone try to make sure the information we post isn’t ambiguous and compare the Same-type atk against Same-type def :x
There won’t be any plate bonus if you are not wearing plate.
The strike defense you have will just act like additional pdef against strike attacks.
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I just want to make a quick note here. I know that swordsmen have disadvantages due to range and other things but I think it’s working in a fair way if there’s no bug and only the bonus +% gets reduced.
Looking at reductions alone, Swordsmen have the highest % bonus in TBL and this simply have a counter-measure.
It’s even more a thing that only affects Murmilo and some Clerics like Inquisitor because they’re the only classes relying on the fact that almost everyone uses Plate in TBL. All Wizards, Archers, matk-Clerics and other swordies already gets 0% against Plate.
It was the same thing with some Wizards and Clerics wearing Cloth and being deleted by T10 CataGoons using Rush for perma stun and +25% damage. Some people had a spare armor to switch to avoid the damage penalty as a counter-measure.
If it’s working normally I don’t see you getting 25% less damage, I see you not doing 25% more damage. Just like my SR bonus is 0% against Plate and gets 12.5% against Cloth and Leather but not to Plate which is most commonly used :x
But IMHO, if it’s really that bad it’s totally worth a new thread as feedback (or even bug report) explaining what happens and why is it so bad. Maybe we get a future revamp of the type-defenses in next months in kToS versions :x
I just tested with other types of armor, and it seems like this happens for all types
If you are wearing any leather armor with pierce type defense (no matter what the value) the additional damage of pierce on leather will be simply canceled
what @aleparadisetos means is that murmillo has a disadvantage in that because most players use solmiki plate in pvp, Strike type damage shout give more damage to those players, but is completely the opposite …
that is, there is no counter for those who use solmiki plate in pvp.
i will upload another video showing this soon
But it’s the same for Dragoons against Solmiki Leather :x - or Archers against Plate (or even Wizards against Cloth due to 0% + cloth mastery - just like Murmilo against Plate with 0% + plate mastery).
If it’s supposed to be so then why is the penalty system still in the game? does not make any sense to me -.- ‘’ you’re kind of saying to me’'ok, it’s bugged but the same goes for the other classes, so it’s okay ''
I think you did not see what it’s like to play against a thauma shadow killing you in 1 or 2 hits with a combo of shrink body, or zealot 2 full spr with immolation and blind faith, they kill you like a mob, you do not.
So where’s the bug in this?
How should it work according to you?
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I’m saying that a bug is something working in a non-intended way. If it’s a well defined mechanic it’s not a bug. All classes have advantages and disadvantages, things they are strong against and things they are weak against.
And I’m also saying that if you think it’s really that bad, you should make a feedback thread explaining what’s so bad about it and ask for changes. People will agree or disagree with you and hopefully make a healthy discussion and hopefully the devs will hear you out.
Murmilo isn’t just a bossing god, they’re also magic-defense gods and Block gods. You also have bonus damage against the most commonly used armor-type in TBL. This is what I see about it. You found a weakness/disadvantages in a class that has HUGE advantages in various things.
I did, don’t worry. But just like they need to CC you before doing the combo you can CC them, cast Bunshin or use your Strike debuffs to deal additional damage. Fair.
Clerics are unbalanced - end of story. That’s another problem on its own and everyone knows that.
But it doesn’t justify wanting Murmilo to have no weakness at all. Eveyrone has their pros and cons.
SR can be pretty strong, more than it should due to range and other stuff. But in turn you’re far weaker and can’t wear shield and fight properly. Pros and Cons. Murmilo can fight to the fullest with shield while keeping HUGE defense values. Pros and Cons, simple as that.
if i have 1200 phisical def and 150 def against pierce type ,should just add 150 phisical def to that type of attack,1350 at the end,but looks like it removes all the penalty againt that type of attack,doesnt matter what the value
It removes 75 (half of your pierce def) from the base penalty of 25, which brings the penalty to 0% and then it adds 150 extra pdef.
Looks like it’s working as intended.
It seems to be an okay PVE mechanic. And for TBL, why would you want to add even more damage boosts.
This was before the damage formula was re-done, bonus against armor possible was different since there was reductions against certain types too. I can’t upload my video right know, but it was the same as you guys come to conclusion.
https://translate.google.com.br/translate?sl=ko&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=pt-BR&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.inven.co.kr%2Fboard%2Ftos%2F4621%2F3168&edit-text=&act=url
It appears that there is a bug with armor types bonus OR imc doesn’t explain how that should work and it seems misleading.
Either way i don’t think there should be status that negates the disadvantage of using certain types of armors now because archers do take advantage of armor types too and doesn’t get those bonuses reduced (Cannon gets 25% on plate for example), wizards can get similar advantages with elemental attacks and status too.
i still thinking that is a bug,1200+150 of pierce type ,the 25% adcional damage should be calculated with the final value ,in that case 1350
They do though. Cannon is an attack attribute just like Strike/Slash/Pierce, it works the same. That’s why it doesn’t look like a bug. Just a weird obscure and maybe slightly outdated mechanic for PVP.
wizards can get similar advantages with elemental attacks and status too.
Attribute bonuses aren’t really relevant in pvp.
But status bonuses indeed might be a bit imbalanced since they actually apply as a multiplier to final damage.
And that’s for PVP only. Because in PVE all those mechanics have nothing particularly broken or strange about them.
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