Tree of Savior Forum

Swordsman is a joke DPS at high levels, but why? (this post was made in April, before R8)

Class and Rank Swordsman
#328

that would make sense imo. if you’re up close, you should deal the most damage period. people from far away shouldnt come close to your damage because they dont risk their necks as much as you. But ToS runs on the logic that being a backliner = more damage. honestly it makes no sense to me.

but this is the early stages of the game. maybe they’ll change it someday where the food chain changes, and you feel more rewarded for actually grabbing Petista , rather than being forced into taking it. as in you can still kick plenty of butt , not as much as a pure dps bred, but you at least can draw enemies to you. if ToS becomes -that- i can honestly say itmight be amongst the best of mmos ive ever played.

#329

All swordsmen are made to be tanks, jeez I don’t even know if you’re serious or trolling at this point. Again I ask, why is Peltasta a necessity? Yes it is at this point but is it because it’s supposed to be or because of a game design flaw? If so, why put Highlander at rank 2? Why not just shove all swordsman into Peltasta at Rank 2? The highlander is unlocked at the same time as a Peltasta, why should people wait till rank 3 before they can use a rank 2 class just because “all swordsman are tank”, which by the way, again, NO IT’S NOT. Look, I don’t know what dragoon you’re playing but just because you are okay with being a beta-swordsman being the scapegoat for all the other classes and doing less doesn’t mean the rest want to.

Again I reiterate, why have so many classes that do nothing but damage if “all swordsmen are tank”? If dps is our secondary function, which I have news for you, isn’t all that good either, shouldn’t we have more utility skills instead of outright damage? It’s plain false advertising for people who just want to melee and do damage.

3 Likes
#330

DPS swordsmen are a joke. Nobody needs us in a party later and we are ■■■■ at soloing the magic mobs. Thank you IMC for the worst melee class balancing i have ever seen.

#331

Now swords are just a pushing bag, they can’t do absolutely nothing, they can’t even tanking magic mobs.

#332

Well you can if you go Rodelero. #-#~! but at that stage why not just remove swordy’s ability to use anything not a shield.

#333

Don’t expect any changes in the near future. The foundation of the class is broken. I highly doubt there is a decent fix or improvement. They can’t even fix the game optimization and crashes until now.

For class balance, you may wait for another year or so.

#334

Sorry for the late reply!

I was thinking on this!! What if they didn’t wanted for us, swordies, to invest on STR this much (like, 5:1 STR:CON). What if they wanted us to be 1:1 or 2:1 CON:STR?

That would explain why no skill scales from STR :o

Even doppel would do the same damage but with high MAXHP.

I’m thinking about this =x

#335

One thing I’ve realized while party grinding in the 270s is that Archers and Wizards aren’t favored as damage-dealers solely because of their damage, but because many of their endgame cookie-cutter builds employ abilities that are so easy to use effectively.

As a Swordsman, I have to bob and weave to avoid damage, and I have to rely on the mobber/taunter to keep the packs of mobs in tight groups or my abilities lose most of their effectiveness. The archers and wizards I’m seeing in parties at this level have no such issues. They simply point and click to blanket large areas with their ground AOE zones or projectile barrages.

To make matters worse, PvE encounter design at this level necessitates this form of mindless gameplay by throwing archer, mage, and mid-ranged melee mobs into most endgame grinding zones. These types of mobs have particularly spiteful AI and will refuse to aggro properly, leash at random distances, and run past the taunter to swing at thin air, making tight grouping nigh impossible.

1 Like
#336

This is input from a C3 pure con pelt that actually WANTS to tank
,is almost unkillable ( i say almost because i ended up in a random dungeon run with 2 MORE tanks and 2 dps , no healer, to put me in my place LOL)
and who cant even 1 shot a level 19 at 90 XD (this is not a complaint im just saying this is what my builds weakness is and i still love it)

I don’t understand why the dps builds don’t have more buffs that lower tankiness but boost damage, like the pelt has 2 skills that cripple your damage but make you tankier (i call them the make myself hit 1s buttons)
why not the other way around?

also to the swordsmen in here saying take peltastas taunt and put it on swordsman, that would make me quite sad as it is literally the 1 trick pony of the peltasta with everything else just kind of being there to help that 1 trick move be as effective as it could be

that being said i think peltastas other moves should have some sort of provoke stacking and that putting a provoke passive on the base class of swordsman was a bad idea because all it does is get the swordsman i am trying to protect killed in parties

also i think this game should have more consistency
when i look at the Skill calculator i notice something right away
there is 4 colors of classes, red,green,blue and yellow

in my head i go

‘‘oh ok
’‘blue = tank
red= damage
green = support and
yellow = merchant’’

this is absolutely not the case LOL
example
rodelero is blue , so i would assume he is a tank that i can take c3 of to go with my pelt

he has 1 SINGLE SKILL that increases his survivability …which also happens to be the 1 trick pony of THAT path , slithering, to evade magic

he does have alot of cc ill give him that, but i am not sure if any of them work on bosses so i feel like his cc is very limited in usefulness

so rodelero is more of a …weird shield dps class
(which should have a red circle imo)
that has cc but cant dps nearly as good as the other swordsman dps class? thats a little odd to me, what role are you trying to fill if you take this class?

my other choice for pure beefy tanking is squire …which is supposed to be a merchant class but happens to have the most godliest stun on the planet , so godly that im going to take squire over rodelero godly…

16 monsters including bosses stunned for 10 seconds and 50% reduced phys def on all the stunned monsters?

wat da hail

like why isn’t this on rodelero? squire also has a 40% hp food buff which i think will be more useful to me than slithering as pure con
at least give rodelero arrest and then give squire some merchant attack like throw money at monsters or something, isn’t that what squire was for ? making money? give him another shop then lol

now my choices of being the pure solid tank have been narrowed down from ALL this ‘‘variety’’ from all 4 base classes

to being a 2 trick pony pelt rodelero
(swash and slither)

or being a 3 trick pony pelt squire
(swash and arrest and hp food)

the fact that the merchant class is better at tanking then the tanking class is silly

the fact that Taunt is so important for tanking that not only do these dps swordsman have to take it to be useful later, but if you want to be an actual viable tank you HAVE to be a swordsman because the other blue icons in the other classes dont really have much to offer either for aggro grab

like whoever was joking about archer being a tank, with all this variety i actually think archer SHOULD be allowed to be a tank

Quarrel shooter is a blue icon, it has a cc and it has a a shield deploy that taunts but the taunt is kind of sad, and its missing the ‘‘survivability buffs’’ to actually be a tank and it has running shot for w/e reason that makes people play it for that run and gun feel and they still play it as a dps’’

cryomancer would be a great tank, it has freeze cc spam, but this blue icon also has 0 survivability buffs and 0 taunts

paladin is the weirdest of the bunch on this list
he has 0 cc 0 taunts and super survivability solely based on the fact that he is in the cleric tree and will have enough heals to be invincible

why would u want to pick this? if u want to be a tanky support you can literally pick any other tree in the cleric path and go full con
like what does the paladin really offer here?

imo every blue circle in the game on all classes should have a survivability boost move, a taunt move and some ccs to make the game balanced that way you aren’t stuck with 1 real tank class out of the bajillion classes we have

and if it wasn’t supposed to be that way, why does the swashbuckling move exist then?

if 5 dps are in a dungeon, they will kite it absolutely fine
if 5 healers are in a dungeon, they will have infinite survivability and be fine
if 5 tanks are in a dungeon its going to be a brutal struggle full of absolute pain and suffering

if theres no point in tanks because 5 dps don’t even need a tank then what is the point of peltasta existing in the first place?

if there is no point in peltasta taunt, and there is no point in swordsman dps builds, then what is the point of swordsman existing in the first place?

really the whole system is an absolute gong show right now but considering there is more ranks to come imc might just be planning for the real endgame

we also need like support archers with healing arrow shots and support trappers with medkits and supply crate buffs and etc for the other classes too that way all 4 base can be in any role if they choose

#337

Swordsmen do have abilities that trade defense for offense…

Gung-Ho (cant be used with Guardian)
and Deeds of Valor.

Rodelero is about throwing CC on targets and killing them while they struggle to do anything about it. Note they class has two 100% bonus to Strike benefits which end up as 200% when stacked which basically goes into Slither in, hit, High Kick them, and then drop blows. Buffs in Ktos make this easier with Shooting star being strike so you can really dig into them.

#338

oh , well then they just need to tweak the buffs allready existing to nerf more tankyness and boost more dps
and
also remove the provoke so the dps isnt killing themselves

#339

You can already turn Provoke On/Off at your leisure.

#340

Upon checking this 2 links, I lost all hopes on swordsman.

Swordman rank 8 predictions by the links

  1. Matador- Yup so we literally tame bulls with a red cape. Bullshit.
  2. Mumillo- Shield class. Yup useful. LITERALLY USEFUL FOR GOD’S SAKE. (sarcasm intented)
    3.)Lancer- God ■■■■■■■ damn it imc. Another spear based swordsman? This hit my nerves. I hope this doesn’t become cancer like dragoon. For some reason they should make hoplite the base swordsman class instead of swordsman since imc itself is a big fan of spear types
#341

Has it ever occurred to you blue icons are actualy utility classes and not just tanks specifically? Makes more sense doesn’t it? No? Ok. Never Mind. I’m out.

#342

But I though Quarrel Shooter was a tank, and Paladin :frowning:

…

#343

It all makes sense now. Sorcs and Necros are supposed to make money AFKing like the rest of the yellow-icon classes.

But wait… Fletcher?

#344

World Boss merchant.

1 Like
#345

On topic: It all starts with our incredibly bad scaling base class “swordsman”.

Every other class has some kind of % scaling.
Archers: %crit, attackspeed.
Cleric: % based heals (no damage here I guess)
Wiz: % cast speed and % damage.

How about fixing gung ho and concentrate?
I mean, compare concentrate with blessing, and then keep in mind that blessing scales with int and spi in ktos patch. don’t give me that “c2 class > c1 class” crap… There are a lot of classes going base class to c3, so apparently c1 class > c3 class in some cases.

#346

Sometimes it baffles me how swordman qqs just because they need to take 1 circle of peltasta to be wanted for party
While i dont know about archers and clerics, lets see the wizard ones.
Utility:
Cryo will NEED cryo 3 to be wanted
Chrono? Also 3 circles
How about the godly wiz3 ele3? They NEED wiz 3 to function properly
And how many people taking 1 circle of linker being left in favor of the c2 linker ones?

How come you qq this much when the only thing you need to sacrifice to become ‘meta’ is one rank 2 circle?
Edit: i am supporting the argument that swordman needs to scale better on some of their skill though

#347

i’m guessing - based on playing other mmo’s - it’s probably because most twelve years old are inclined to pick melee dps classes that will either make them a badass ninja or a kewl kirito.

for some common builds, i have yet to see a sensible reason for taking other circles over pelt.