Wrong, many melee classes in many other MMOs are either same dps or higher dps than range class. That’s why many people are against the current mechanic of this game. It is still early access though. They may balance it in the future.
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looks like you never played any good mmo then…
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Hi, im a lvl 270 Swordman>Peltasta>hoplite>cata3>Dragoon, Let me tell you, Swordman is trash, not only that, if you are a fool who didn’t happen to choose peltasta, you should reroll already to something useful like cleric/wiz/archer, if you really really want to play Swordman even tho you have laughable DPS, you can pick swordman>peltasta>whatever, if you don’t you wont get past 220, because no one wants “DPS swordmans”.
High lvl Parties are like this 1 Peltasta, 1 cleric (preferably not monk and cleric c2), 1 archer (any), 2 wizards (1 wiz3ele3warlock and 1 utility whether cryo, linker or chrono).
Do you see any slot for your high dps, not peltasta swordman? oh yeah u didn’t even get to rank7 and if u did, im sure u know no one wants you, you are useless in every sence anyways.
So yeah.
Archer Top tier
Wizard / Cleric HIgh tier
Swordman with pelt Trash tier
Swordman without pelt Useless trash tier
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…?? Try World of Warcraft.
Despite what you might hear or feel personally about the game, it has been around since 2004 and has plenty of people playing, and or waiting for the next expansion, and is the most successful MMO in the west by far. All the Korean MMOs I have played have always been a massive grind and or pay to win, so i dont know what “good mmo” you are referring to.
However I am still interested in ToS, because I have never seen the leveling curve reset mechanic before and i find it interesting.
Warriors and rogues(i guess you could call them ninjas but not really) are strong dps in WoW every expansion. Usually just behind the spell casters on the damage meters. Hunters(basically archers in ToS) bring utility and are very mobile on top of having high dps.
In PvP, a good hunter can run circles around a warrior. Spell casters also have many tools to keep a warrior off of them, despite warriors having several range closing abilities. Usually a warrior in pvp without a healer is a dead warrior, but given a window of opportunity a warrior will absolutely destroy their target. Rogues, the only melee class in WoW that don’t also have a tank roll, are more equipped to deal with the likes of hunters and casters, mainly because of their stealth abilities, etc. I would mention some of other melee classes from WoW, but I don’t think they are represented in ToS. Talking about them wouldn’t contribute to the topic.
Warriors in WoW do have more hp and wear the heaviest armor-plate. But that extra hp means nothing. Hell, because of how their abilities work, Warlocks (spell caster by the way if you are unfamiliar) can have more hp than a warrior if they spec for it. Even though you are a warrior, if you are not specialized as a tank, bosses and raid mobs will one shot you regardless. There is no hope of a dps specced warrior being a tank in a raid. Even the actual tanks themselves still need full healer support to survive while holding aggro.
Not to mention classes being locked to a specific armor type. Mages wear cloth, Rogues wear leather, Hunters wear chain mail and Warriors wear plate. This is common rule of thumb in MMOs, but not ToS.
All that said, this is not WoW. But i dont think it is fine to leave swordsman in its current state. Tanking should be a choice, not a requirement. No one is asking for swordsman to be the best damage class in game…just not so pitiful for tanking to be the only way to play.
With regards to survivability, as far I have seen in ToS it is no different here. All this talk about “lol you have more hp” is rubbish. Swordsmen sit in melee range to do damage. We are more likely to get hit by the boss. Ranged classes do massive damage from far away. You wanna talk pvp? The ranged classes have CC and damage to save them from a swordsman who doesn’t even have a proper range closer ability. The majority of Swordsman classes are a sitting duck in pvp. Cata>dragoon builds obviously excluded as cataphract is almost a requirement for good pvp because of the movement buff. Personally I dont care about pvp in ToS right now so its w/e for me.
TL:DR —Swordsmen in ToS should not be reduced to being cannon fodder for the mages and archers. We should not have to build ourselves as a semi tank to secure a spot in a party. Leave tanking to the Peltesa > Rode builds. Again, I feel we should have a choice in whether we dps or tank.
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I’m a WoW raider, and the disparity between ranged and melee classes in this game (PvE and PvP) is even worse. In WoW, mob pathing and hitboxes are relatively well-coded and consistent. There are a few exceptions, but they are far and few between. In ToS, mob pathing is absolutely horrible; the size of monster hitboxes is extremely inconsistent, and very often will not sync up with the size of their models/sprites. This, along with all the other mechanics that punish melee combat make playing a melee class in this game very un-fun and unrewarding.
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Meanwhile i’m killing solo truffles 10 at a time while my basic attacks hit 5k and they don’t even touch me so no breaks…not talking about skills… and i’m what… oh only 226…
but I agree that people without peltasta won’t be wanted. there is no space in the group for this…
but damage ? haha maybe the fact you people went hoplite which is a defensive class, of course won’t reach high numbers…
or I really don’t see what your problem.
sure other class do more damage. but swordsman do more then enough, i don’t feel like I miss any damage. so problem is with archers, not swordsman.
and don’t even start about this. I don’t wanna hear.
the fact some people are casual, and don’t know to utilize the mechanics, doesn’t mean something is wrong.
while I do agree that there is something bit off here.
it’s not the ‘nightmere’ you are trying to make it to be.
sad that people first go read about swordsman, and they see this crying…
try to offer something more supportive to swordsman then crying about archer damage, which have nothing to do with it.
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How do you hit 5k with basic attack? Even with 300+ STR and +15 weapon your physical attack stat is only around 1.5k. After mob defense it becomes like 1k3, with crit around 2k5 top.
And I went cataphract, not hoplite for that matters.
Spear 50% pierce, warcry , frenzy , deeds of valor 50% + my weapon atk + base atk.
and 250str if you wonder.
weapon +7 brandish…
on truffles lv221 monster… 86,613hp - 241 def.
I do 1.5k without buffs, which what hoplite would do…
Swordman is pvp class, top 50 ktos only sword and wiz on top, no archer there.
show me screenshot of 5k normak atk
no one take you seriously without prove
Wow . was getting ready to log back in the game then i come across this topic. was about to go shinobi, with nothing but dps paths. now im afraid to. are they really that bad in comparison to Archer or Wizard?
You’re probably gonna have a bad time “comparing” your dps to archers/wizards as a shinobi. Currently Dragoon, Doppel and some Fencers could get near their damage with some setup, but for Shinobi, I don’t think so, but it depends on your base classes, corsair c2 for example, with hexxen dropper doing really good bursts.
Idk what the hell this guy is talking about… Hes comparing a single hit skill thats not even powerful at all, to Musketeer’s Snipe skill…
This guy doesn’t have a single burst damaging skill on that picture, and probably doesn’t know the dmg output of it end game either…
My Hexen Dropper can hit up to 55k ~ 60k and i have only level 10 attribute on it… Hell you count how many hits Hexen Dropper does… seems like 10 ~ 12 hits and you can use the skill twice before cooldown
on top of that, my Kunai does alot of dmg too without clones, and its very spammable… (it can be used twice before 15 second cooldown) oh and lets not forget Pierce from the hoplite circle… it does decent damage though you will have to stand in one place to use it… but spamming skills is not really the way how I play my “Swordsman”… Instead, I drop the Jolly Roger flag down and Double Weapon Assault… my DPS is very high just doing regular attacks too.
Another thing is, I have NO CON AT ALL! my stats are on STR and DEX, those are only required stats to do damage, you don’t need any other stats… anybody writes a guide telling people to put stat points on STR/CON/SPR is a complete noob, and by end game you will be pathetic and weak and eventually come here to the forums to complain making topics like this
So to say Swordsman are only used for tanking is complete BS, I can deal damage, I can dodge damage, and I usually take 1 dmg off everything when i do get hit (except magic type monsters, and monsters 5 ~ 10 levels higher)
They shouldn’t be if iTOS applies the kTOS balances
So your build is like sword -> pelt -> hop -> barb c2 -> doppel c2?
And warcry has really long cd as well, that’s not sustainable damage.
well i intended to go swordsman c2 barb c2 corsair c2 but if you still say it might be difficfult to reach that i might just say eff it and go Dragoon.
you could ask shinobi experts about the damage, but from what I see partying with shinobis, their main source of damage is still hexxen dropper, which does about 7 hits of around 4k-7k. could be better with attributes up. I have not really seen them use shinobi skills at all.
well the other issue i have is that they are supposedly bad in pvp. like i dont mind playing the underdog, but if swordsmen are straight up garbage…idont think it’ll be a fun game for me
You can make a different class while pvp is not yet balanced. Maybe go cleric or something. However if you really want to go swordsman just stick with it first and wait till things get a bit better. kTOS does a lot of balancing having read their patch notes from time to time.