Tree of Savior Forum

[Suggestion] Stat System

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#1

In my opinion Con/Spr are fine. Dex is more or less the way to go to deal damage.
Int/Str are according to my testings pretty much useless at the moment.

For melees especially I had to realize that picking up Str gives me nothing. Ok I only played my Swordy to Level 80 but on 40 I realized that Full Str gave me no Damage at all and as I switched to Full Dex I suddenly started Overkilling everything. It makes sense, because Str/Int give us Flat +1 Damage for 1 Level. Whereas Dex increases our chance to Deal 150%+Crit Bonus damage, rise the evasion and make sure we never miss a hit. Sounds far unbalanced but the moment you realize that accuracy and evasion are also worthless it is almost fine again. In the end Dex is more or less only for Crit and this is the way to deal damage because skills for non-casters can crit.
And the moment you reach the about 100% crit chance you can either throw in some Str for a bit more damage or just go Con/Spr as this yields more value anyways.

For Casters it is even worse. At least my Pyromancer never got anything from having Int. It is kind of retarded. Especially this one dungeon run I had with another Pyromancer because that guy played the Tank. It was the 90 Dungeon und this guy had something like 4:1 Con/Spr, 15k Life and still enough damage.
Thanks to the card bug I tried the Level 200 Full Int Pyromancer Version and well, still was underwhelming especially if you think about what you give up for that bit of extra damage.

I think it shouldn’t be like this. So what to do?
Give Str/Int more value. How about something like

  • For every 10 Str/Int you get additional 10 damage. If necessary increase this bonus value after unlocking higher ranks like 200 str and then 15 additional damage.
    I also thought about something like 10 every 10 points until 100 then 20 every 10 points but this probably goes out of hand too fast.
  • Make Archer damage scale with accuracy. This would make sense in so many way. Many Attributes increase your crit chance, this would give you the decision on the archer path to either go for a crit build (which fits typical archer lore to be honest) oder choose utility or caster with something like sapper and then flat damage spr/con whatever. Also gloves give accuracy which would perfectly fit into this.
  • Make evasion more useful. It can’t be that you run with 20 dex through the game and never miss anything. Thinking about pvp, dex gives you evasion but who cares. You dodge nothing anyways.
6 Likes
#2

int and str only shine later on in the game like 150 + u wont notice them at low lvls alot of people seem to forget this games has tons of lvls so early lvl stats points wont scale to well but at a certain lvl it picks up

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#3

Yup, after a certain amount of point invested you get free points! The more you have of the same stat, the less you need to invest for each free point.

for example: you need to add 5 str around 80 str to get one free point. Near 150 str you only need 2 or sometime 3 points for the extra. And even sometimes you get 2 extra points of stats. I don’t know if there is an exact chart for this tho.

#4

I can only speak for swordman class but except for Barbarian STR > DEX in pure attack prowess especially late game. Unfortunately overall dex is the better stat due to additional evasion. Some classess like Hoplite does better with str than with dex all the time due to finestra.

#5

Int really shines later, it gives you 2x damage if you distribute well the points

#6

For every 10 Str/Int you get additional 10 damage. If necessary increase
this bonus value after unlocking higher ranks like 200 str and then 15
additional damage.
I also thought about something like 10 every 10
points until 100 then 20 every 10 points but this probably goes out of
hand too fast.

I really dislike threshold stats, since you either have to build your stats assuming no gear (making not affected by gear changes), or build your stats with a certain set of gear in mind, which breaks the bonus when new/better gear comes out.

I’d rather have the bonus distributed across the entire range rather than just hitting some magical point where suddenly you get this massive boost.

#7

I know this but it is by far not enough.

My 200 Pyro with 260 Int has a fireball ticking for 1050 dmg. Meanwhile I had 6k life and a fine SP Pool as I went Con/Spr until 40:40 and then went full int.
Now I resetted and well…
Fireball ticks for 800 and my Pyro has 24k HP. Damage still is fine because it’s the weapon which gives me damage. The staff isn’t even upgraded to begin with. If I threw the typical +8/9 on it the difference would be even less. And it doesn’t really get better later on as you also get stronger equipment.
It’s just, why should you trade so much survivability/sustain for next to no damage at all?
Imagine you are level 300. There will be a significant difference in monster strength for lvl 350 mobs. Ok you level 50 int straight until 350. With bonus stats this might give you 100 Int. 100 damag on top of probably 3k. In comparison you throw 8,5k life away.
It’s retarded.

#8

I could be way off. But i feel i only saw what stats did after I hit 200 and messed around some. I feel depending on your class/playstyle in MOST cases Dex is better then STR… Early on… Later STR seemed to over take. Again depends on your setup.

Some people run a evasion crit build. and stand in one place with Autos. Some do a Crit Build to run in circles and spam the “Big Skills” for crit damage. So evasion is wasted.

Some people do the same with STR and just pop pots and have a large HP. or run in circles with STR and do the same thing. I think its all viable just depends on your class and how you play.

I feel as levels rise it will get clearer on what stats matter. Just look at RO. AGI Sucked unless someone was power leveling you. Trying to Solo Level a AGI Knight was retarded. Everything hit you. You didn’t dodge crap, Your HP Pool was low. Damage was low… But at higher levels you were somewhat better haha… just depends

#9

For every 5 points of base stat you get 1 bonus point to that stat until 50 base stat, then you start to get 1 bonus stat for each 4 base points until 100 in base stat, then every 3 points until 150 base.

You get 10% of Str/Int as bonus for each character Rank after 1, so at Rank 6 you have +50% to these stats - you get 1 bonus for each 2 stats spent in Str/Int. Those 50% at rank 6 also affect bonus points from previous bonus so it adds up to quite a bit of additional damage.

So a good balance in str/dex needed to achieve optimal balance between damage/survivability.
If you go full dex - you will have chance to do 150% of you phys atk and a high evasion, can be somewhat fixed with crit atk gems.
If you go full str - you will have normal attack damage comparable to crits in full dex build and your rare crits and physical periodical effects (bleed/poison) will be quite potent, rare crits can be fixed with critical rate gems making full str build a devastating glass cannon.

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#10

It’s not true that STR makes no difference.

I’ve done many stat resets and checked damage on my fencer and rogue c2 ( and several other lower lvl cleric/archer/swordie classes ). High STR was by far the better option for damage, and did make a difference.

It’s not true that INT makes no difference, but due to no mechanic like critical attack, it makes less of a difference than STR does to a physical damage class.

You can get away with going much higher CON on a mage. However in your example you state a fireball tick - fireballs tick quite quickly, and those ticks add up. 200+ extra damage per tick adds up to a lot of damage with 2x fireballs doing their full number of hits, especially with a flame ground + fire pillar down doing hits with that extra damage.

#11

You forgot that each fireball tick 10 times, so 250 damage per tick translate into 2500 per fireball, that and flame ground another 2500. If you have a linker circle it doubles that up. So in the same amount of time the difference in damage is actually 10000 with 250 INT added. That is not counting the random magic amp from INT as well

The real question is: does that 10000 difference means anything to you? Because in case you only level on trash mob, it’s useless, but on elite mob, that could means a lot more efficiency since you kill faster with less skills casted.

As for swordman, I can say around level 120 when you reached mage tower, DEX becomes much less efficient, since you deal peanut damage to mob (100-200 auto attack and 500 on crit) while each mob has 5-10k HP. Invested in STR at that point would allow you to more than triple the damage output (400-500 on auto attack and 1200 on crit).

With barbarian as exception, most swordman should NOT go full DEX.

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#12

Barbarian with 1 circle in highlander (for 2h 50% crit atk attribute and cartar strike against bosses) is a viable way for balanced dex/str build.

#13

A question though, how did you only have 260 int at level 200? I’m pretty sure my INT is more than 350 (400 with equipment) and with 7k health (9k with eq) as a lv 200 wiz 3 ele 3 (I should had taken screenshot).

800 to 1000 damage is actually a 25% increase, which is worth 25 level in attribute (though they stack multiplicatively).

For Ele 3 such as me, 100 or 200 matk extra is actually alot, as my hail and frost cloud did a crazy amount of hit over duration. This matter even more when combined with attribute and quick cast, which I can deal at least around 20k extra damage (I can’t really calculate it as the number of hit is not clear, I would assume at least 100 hits with both spell) with just that 2 skills to boss by just having around 100 to 200 extra matk.

#14

As I said I went balanced Con:Spr first then switched to Int. At least read please.
I mean if you go full Int without anything else you probably deal 40% more damage and die to 5 archer mob auto hits.

For Wiz3/Ele3 that a lot of Int is working really good is fine but the rest of the caster classes?
I mean look at the 25% yes that is 25 Attribute Levels or 150 Base Levels and 150 Base Levels is a lot and given the fact how it looks like on level 200 it might even get worse depending how much magical attack the higher grade weapons will have.
Imagine you do not level with high exp rates we had and especially if you are in the hard ranges of being about level 160. You actually went for high int and are happy that this one elite mob dies after one cast to all your dots and then you have cd, archers shoot you and you lose lots of hp. Meanwhile you see a pyro pulling a lot of mobs running around his circle not caring because he has got 25k life and doesn’t care about some autohits and the moment the mobs are dead your cds are off again.
For me with the rates we had it seemed fine more or less doing anything and you could reach level 200. I actually do not know how they plan to scale the monsters. But if you pick up 100 Int from level 200 to 300. And the mobs on level 300 aren’t much stronger than on 200. Well why not.
In the end pretty much anything is worthless which isn’t a dot. Meteor the only exception as that spell got scaling.

And also single monster fighting aside. For example going from 200 to 236 will probably take a huge time and grind. And if you go Int/Str all that it yields you is probably about 5% more damage depending on if you have multi hits or not. This must feel very underwhelming as progress. If you go for Con it is at least 2500 life which should be about 1-2 hits you can eat more. This is at least something.

Sidenote as I think about it more. If the system stays the way it is now you have to balance all classes that are supposed to deal damage to have at least a similar amount of hits in time. Or give all single hit skills some % scaling.
Might also be that in the long run to level 600 everything flattens out anyways. It is just that the stat system at least for those 200 levels felt really retarded.

#15

Still, it’s just not true that STR/INT don’t matter. Going pure STR/INT is silly of course, you want about 30-50 CON at least, and enough DEX to crit/evade on a physical damage class.

The bare fact alone that taking high STR will result in auto attacks that do more damage than crits would if you went full DEX shows this. ( You won’t see this until lvl 140+ at least though ).

But let’s look at wizards. The ones who want to deal damage, as looking at a support wizard and arguing for high INT is a bit silly.

Pyromancer -> nearly every skill has multiple hits or ticks, and has a high advantage to any INT increase because of this. Any build taking pyromancer 1 benefits from high INT ( of the 3 wizards I’ve made that included pyro 1 in their build, this was true ).

Cryomancer -> Ice Wall alone provides a ton of DPS, and each of those shards that come off of the ice wall are based off of your magic attack, INT. Ice Pike is multi hit, and does a lot of damage the more you pump into INT as well.

Psychokino -> Psychic Pressure ticks do a lot more damage the more INT you have, and since the recent update, it only can be held down for 10 seconds. If it wasn’t for this ( you could hold it down indefinitely before ) I would argue for going more CON ( I stat reset my psychokino to 1:1 INT/CON, it worked out pretty well ).

Sorcerer -> This is one wizard class I haven’t actually played myself, but I’ve played with friends who have. INT is what your summon’s attack scales off of, why wouldn’t you want more attack on your summon?

Elementalist has already been discussed as well.

If you’re not one of these circles, then you probably are more of a support class, and maybe more INT isn’t all that useful to you.

Also taking INT doesn’t mean you go pure max INT. It’d be silly to do so. Throw some CON in there to survive, but INT is still really important.

#16

This at least is completely wrong. Most of the time I played Monk and Str was a huge waste in every state of the road to level 200. I just threw in some points later on as my attacks were critical close to 100% of the time and Con also gave me nothing because of heals. Didn’t change my damage to be honest. I think in the end I had about 80 Str which were the last 50 levels. Didn’t really matter. Probably gets more value with guilds and wars on pvp as evasion is worthless and without high dex you can either go full con and deal no damage at all or Str:Con mix.

I am pretty sure if the system doesn’t change the way it is especially with guilds coming up and a lategame where you need more sustain (because this actually really started to matter at about 160 with more and more ranged/caster mobs) we will see Con:Spr seeing being favored through all classes. Silver drop rate got increased which means that it is even easier to get something close to a +15 weapon and we will keep these for a long time.
kOBT probably will show. I would really like to be proven wrong and the actual system works, safes work.

#17

I restat ( between lvl 130 - 170 depending on the class ) between different STR/DEX combinations on a Monk, Rogue, Fencer, and Sapper. This was true ( auto attacks dealt more damage non-crit with the high STR build than crits would deal without STR ), but you need to invest highly in STR. Other people on the forums have laid out spreadsheets with damage calculations that show the same.

80 points isn’t going to get you very far. You get a 50% bonus at rank 6, and the regular +1 bonus per every 5 stat points. So you need a lot to make a dent, but the more you put in the more you get out of it. I was running about 250 STR, and it definitely was a huge difference based on stat reset tests.

#18

Monk is a case where you have lots of flat damage buff which really shines at low level but we are not sure how it does at higher level. Mind you that level 200 is not exactly high yet.

#19

Every time you up rank, you will get 10% bonus Str/Int , at the late game when you get to rank 10. you got 100% Str/Int. And with 500+ total stats , you will get bonus every stat point . So 1 Str/Int will give you 3 dame at late.

#20

This is when I stopped reading your post. You have basically 0 experience/testing to back up your opinion.