Tree of Savior Forum

Steam rating dropping fast

I will be one of those who will try it when it’s F2P, but the steam reviews will play a part, some will take it with a grain of salt, others will read them and move on. I’ve taken it with an grain of salt and come here to see what the real deal is and the case seems to be the same, but not as frequent.

Think what’s disappointing is most of the counter arguments seem very weak imho, as I was hoping people would be bit more convincing as I had high hopes for the game. Example, people taking swipes at the negative reviews, saying “kids who haven’t played” or “they only talk about one thing” even though the the 2 top helpful reviews have a decent amount of hours between them and have gone into detail on what’s great and bad about the game.

I’ll link the top one, as he talks a little about each point he has made, good, bad and doesn’t just talk about trading.

http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198036222330/recommended/372000/

So can anyone counter what he says? Would be very helpful than some of the counter arguments so far. As a player looking to try the game the negatives seem to out way the positives due to a lot of restrictions being added that make no sense from a MMO player stand point and has me asking,“Why is that even being done?”

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Depends what you’re definition of good design is… It’s not black and white but I think it is on the darker shade… At least if you value the average Joe at all. It’s not friendly. But it does give the player more freedom to choose where they want to go.

Personally though… I’d just toss out the card system and slacken or remove the XP penalty for lower mobs and increase the XP gain curve on higher level mobs and XP required to level in the correct proportion. Then I’d have the similar freedom to do older zones for grind if I felt like it. And no cards.

But… to say it’s all bad just isn’t true… There are a lot of players that love research heavy games… Things with huge learning curves… They like that feeling of figuring out a system and how to manipulate it. Myself included… So no it’s not all bad.

Are you ******* crazy that guy got only 90h gameplay he is unaware of how programming works the little ****** he never played this game how can he rate this awesome game they should put more restrictions in and make tokens 500$ cheap ***** if you like a game you pay and suffer you stupid ******** or do you want more goldspammers who can trade freely you ******
Ill be playing this awesome game while ***** like you waste time on the forum crying all day you little piece of ***** go cry to you mommy, im already lvl 150 come 1v1 me noob

That would be the typical whiteknight reply

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1:1 trade, right? :smiley:

Even though most of what he writes is fact, as someone with >300 hours played (that includes both 2 CBTs) I disagree that some of the things listed as cons are actually cons. I suggest you play the game yourself, because the core game is actually a lot of fun. It could just use a bit of tweaking here and there (which the devs are actively doing).

Here are some counters, in my opinion, to a few of his listed cons:

Loot distribution is allocated to persons dealing highest amount of damage on every setting. … Even on round-robin I had gotten 5 items before someone else got 1.

If this is true, it is a bug - not a con. It shouldn’t work that way.

Buffs are limited. Yes you heard that right, BUFFS are limited. There are skills that increase how many buffs you can have, and buffs that give you more… buff slots. Token users can have more buffs.

Limited buffs is an interesting feature that makes you actually think about what you are casting rather than just spamming every buff in your skill set (like other MMORPGs). I, and many other people (there are a few discussions about this feature on the forums), like this feature and don’t see it as a con. Token users having a higher buff limit, IMO, is a con though.

Limited dungeon entries. You can’t freely grind dungeons like, nearly, EVERY other MMORPG out there.

Dungeons give incredibly good EXP, IMO a limit on dungeons reduces the gap between “casual” and “hardcore” players by preventing ‘hardcore’ players from grinding dungeons all day and getting significantly far ahead of the more casual players. Perhaps dungeons/dungeon limits could be re-worked a bit, but in general I don’t see a limit as a con.

Limited Global chat, or shout chat. You need to spend TP (In-game Cash Shop currency) to buy Megaphones to talk in global (shout).

This is most definitely not a con. Unrestricted Global chat always becomes a ■■■■storm of spam.

You must talk to a specific TP Cash Shop vendor to buy TP items. you need to plan ahead or risk needing to teleport back if you want to grab an item (Soul Stone, EXP tome, etc)

I really don’t see how this is a con. You always need to plan ahead before you go adventuring in an MMORPG (stocking up on pots, getting items from storage, etc.). Why should the TP shop be different?

When upgrading an item after X amout of upgrades you have a chance to fail and lose potential, after all potential is gone the item will be destroyed. Trading, team sharing, adding a gem socket, or buying an item from the AH causes the item to lose 1 potential instantly.

Obviously there should be a risk involved in upgrading, so losing potential when failing an upgrade makes sense. The potential system itself, while I can see how some people could consider it a con, I think is a great system for maintaining balance over time by removing old and OP items from circulation, and rewarding you for hunting gears yourself. In most MMORPGs you can simply pass your best items to a friend when you quit, and over the years some players become ridiculously powerful because of all the items that have been given to them, and it is discouraging for new players to join the game.

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To me, it doesn’t really matter. People who enjoy the game should just invite their friends so they can play together.

I enjoy the game and don’t care about the ratings in Steam. I guess people just want this game to be like all the other MMORPGs out there. This game is quite unique for me which makes it nice. The only issue I have is I think the token is a bit expensive :frowning:

Besides, there are so many players playing right now given that it is founder’s server. Imagine F2P… we’ll probably get more players coming in :slight_smile:

And not be able to trade, unless they pay 20$ each, then they can trade 30 times per month per 20$.
They cant choose what loot they get when playing together, so they will HAVE TO trade.
Not be able to queue as a group is the dungeon matchmaking.
and some other minor issues…

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That is true buddy. I find the price of TP quite expensive. I don’t think I’d be paying for it monthly but at certain times I would need a Token to optimize my gaming time. :stuck_out_tongue:

Regarding the trading cap… I think it shouldn’t be an issue. Just be mindful that there is a cap and don’t go trading useless stuff I guess.

I would pay for this game like I did with Ragnarok. But I hope it get’s a bit more affordable.

The game is very young, I think the developers will improve the game as time goes on. I’m actually quite impressed with how quick IMC is in addressing player complaints/concerns/issues/bugs.

I guess to sum it up, we all have to be patient and enjoy what we have right now. Lots of bugs but a lot of people are still playing. Why? Because the game is quite fun and addicting :slight_smile:

bro, paying 18$ a month, is not focus on paying whales, if u dont know all best gear is bound and need to be droped and crafted by urself.

i see ToS as a subscription game that allows free players too xD

Most of those players are simply dumb people

I invited my friends.

“Help me, my friend, I want to get to your level faster.” - Friends

“Okay, let me transfer you some silver and item.” - Me

Moment of silence because trade function is not available.

“T-this game sux. Let’s play other game where it’s actually a multiplayer game.” - Friends

I never see those friend in ToS again.

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Hey IMC @Staff_Julie @STAFF_Ethan please wake up and notice that you are crippling your game with the current system. You disable basic multiplayer features. The argument that this was a decision made to block bots and gold sellers is obviously invalid by now.

Well, I don’t see how these system prevent gold seller because gold seller only has to transfer the silver ONCE.

The players have to regularly use the trade.

If anything, for each amount of inconvenience added it’s actually weighing on the players, not gold seller.

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Pro tip, get on the rocks and the laser wont hit you.

At least, that’s 1 way of getting through a buggy boss.

In the first video I didn’t have to do it, because it was more fun to micro manage.

The rocks were bugged in the second one . They were floating in the air.

I read this review as well and to be honest I felt a lot of the cons were NOT game breaking and could easily have been brought up as things they felt need changed. Unfortunately this review is probably one of the most damaging I’ve read. It’s reviews with personal opinions like this that, in my opinion, that really ruin games that others may actually enjoy despite the cons listed. Also a lot of people take these sources as the only source, and don’t look for more information.

My suggestion to anyone questioning the game - when it goes F2P try it. I’m sure you’ll at least get some enjoyment out of it!

“Buffs are limited. Yes you heard that right, BUFFS are limited. There are skills that increase how many buffs you can have, and buffs that give you more… buff slots. Token users can have more buffs.”

  • find this a unique and interesting mechanic to the game. Not a con in my opinion. It makes players think about which buffs are best for them and their group. Some buffs may even be more beneficial depending on where you are and what you’re fighting. Makes the game more strategic and makes me think about my decisions.

“Limited dungeon entries. You can’t freely grind dungeons like, nearly, EVERY other MMORPG out there. For some reason its crazy bad if you can grind exp/loot in a dungeon, limit is 2 entries per day, 3 for Token users.”

Not so much a con for me. I agree that the 2 run world wide limit is restrictive, but over all I’m ok with a restriction. Most people will only run a dungeon a few times a day anyway. Possibly more on weekends. Not game breaking and is probably something that can be fixed/adjusted based on user feedback.

“Limited Global chat, or shout chat. You need to spend TP (In-game Cash Shop currency) to buy Megaphones to talk in global (shout). There is a pro to this as seen above though.”

This is another point that could be easily streamlined in my opinion and is not a total game breaker. In my days in MMO’s I use “global” chat 10% of the time if even that. If I did a /playtime in most MMO’s it’d probably be a fraction of a percentage that I actually used global chat to contact/speak with other players. He also lists this as a pro so its a bit confusing.

I do agree that the microphone thing is silly, and tedious. (Possibly something that needs removed/changed.)

“Selected wrong class for advancement? Sucks to be you, make a new character, enjoy grinding to 200 again. You can buy a Skill Reset potion which will allow you to reset skill allocations, but not your chosen class advancement.”

This is EVERY MMO. I’m sorry but if you’re going to compare good with other MMO’s then you need to compare everything. I’ve never played an MMO that allows you to completely reset your characters class. Not one. How is this even a Con? This is standard MMO setup. -.- This is one of the points in his review that made me go “Wait is this dude trolling? He states that other MMO’s allow you to grind dungeons, and now he’s complaining he can’t switch complete classes on a whim?.. what other MMO allows you to do that?..”

“Guilds can’t be made unless you become a Templar class which is Swordsman ONLY access. As far as my own research has gone, you need select it for your 7th class advancement, which is pretty much end game, before you can even think about leading.”

Not sure I believe this is a con. Its different and it makes having/starting a guild much more worth it. I do believe I read somewhere that once you level a character to templar - ALL of your characters gain the ability to start a guild. I personally, find this as a unique change to the norm. It’ll also stop (at least at the beginning) people from forming one man guilds.

“Attribute training is limited to RESEARCHING 1 at a time, 2 for Token users. This can be confusing as the game says you can only learn 1 at a time, but it actually means you can only research 1 at a time. You can learn ALL attributes, it just takes time (and Silver).”

Not sure how this is a con? Yeah you cant have instant gratification by training hundreds of these at a time but it makes you have to think about which to take first, and plan your character. For me it made me feel more involved in my character’s growth because I had a choice in how he evolves. If you’re looking for instant gratification, then I suppose this could be a con.

“Collections can be complicated. You must first find a hidden chest (if there is one) in the Area you are to start a collection. Then you must collect misc material drops which can include rare accessory’s and armor or weapons. Additionally, you must take the collection crate to allow the collection to an NPC in town. To complete the collection you need to put the items in the collection vendor which consumes them.”

Not sure how this is really a con? He didn’t say and he didn’t make a suggestion for changes. This is a part of the game for “completionist” people. I view them kind of like achievements, but with a reward thats worth doing them for.

“Specific class restricted crafting. Some Classes (Archer/Wizard) have a special class advancement allowing them to craft special items. You must take that class over a DPS/Support class in order to make these items or buy them from someone who can.”

Not sure how this is a con either? Every game comes with choices - here you either decide to make money or you do more DPS. You can make multiple characters and its not exactly difficult to level. My first char is a swordsman. I chose the class and have a build and it doesn’t bother me that these other classes have unique “crafts”. Also I believe every core class has a class that “provides service” to other players. Swordsman have squire. Priest have Pardoner. Archer has Fletcher. Wizard has Alchemist. Every core class has a class you can “choose” to spec into and receive benefits from. Once again I felt this was a poor con and that the guy didn’t research much.

My second char will probably be a squire! I’m going to set up repair/boost shops in areas that groups do grinding! :smiley:

“You must talk to a specific TP Cash Shop vendor to buy TP items. you need to plan ahead or risk needing to teleport back if you want to grab an item (Soul Stone, EXP tome, etc)”

I have to talk to a specific item shop vendor to buy potions… I have to talk to a specific repair shop vendor to repair items. I’m not sure how this is a CON?

"When upgrading an item after X amout of upgrades you have a chance to fail and lose potential, after all potential is gone the item will be destroyed. Trading, team sharing, adding a gem socket, or buying an item from the AH causes the item to lose 1 potential instantly. "

Risk vs Reward - Con? Ok sure if you take the extra risk you might break the item but on the other end if you succeed you could end up with a really powerful item that sells for a lot! I like this kind of risk. Maybe he’s not into it but I don’t find this game breaking. I played a game with a similar system only there was no “Potential” to be lost. Once you got to 6 or 7 enchants on a single item you had a high chance of just blowing the item up. It was so satisfying to get a 7x item! At the same time the risk meant I would only try on an item I use if I had a back up.

In the end I didn’t feel this guys review was very good. But some people equate “Wall-o-Text” to being good without taking the time to look into it.

I bought the $50 founder and tbh I’m happy with it. I am going through the game doing content on my own and I’ve gotten my monies worth. I’ve spent $50 on worse games thats for sure.

That being said - if you’re waiting for F2P I think this game will give you a lot of action RPG fun for free. If you like it you might stay or when you get to a certain point you may just stop playing but you didn’t pay anything and will surely get X hours of enjoyment.

End thought - if you’re not sure about spending the money wait for F2P and enjoy an amazing Action RPG. If you do decide to purchase a founder pack - all of the multiplayer aspects aside - I think you’ll get more than your monies worth in playing solo as the core of the game is a lot of fun imo.

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Sounds like Diablo 3.

It helps to deter gold sellers by removing the gold sellers market aka the player.

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How does it even remove the market? If anything, by limiting the player’s method of obtaining silver, it create more desire to purchase easy silver from the gold seller.

Unless your meaning of removing the gold sellers market is reducing the amount of players in the game.

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Yep I’m saying less players means less gold sellers.