As a wizard/pyro/linker, in parties we had something like :
1/ Cast your spell
2/ Sit next to bonfire waiting for CD (around 10/15 secondes) or get interrupted by a monster
3/ Get up and go back to step 1
The team never ran out of SP, a bonfire cost 50 silver and benefits for everyone.
So I actually like how SP regen is, it promotes partying.
I don’t know how other class work though so maybe this strategy isn’t applicable but generally, I think it is better how it is now
I agree, I played a pyromancer till about lvl 36, I had about 46 int and around 20 Spr. My SP regen was not good and nor was my SP pool improving in anyway. I urge the dev team to at least improve the sp regen rate for wizzards in a way where we can use our skills more often without having to be poor for a good part of the game.
I don’t get you people that say “just use sp potions, man, it’s not that expensive”. Huh? What? Huh? The cost isn’t the problem. You can only use sp potions so much before you’re back to resorting to auto attacks and as an archer, your auto attacks don’t do crap for damage, unless you’re doing the Kneeling Shot, but for some reason they decided to not let you gain sp over time while using it.
25 base SPR, had 8 from a necklace too. Level 10 cloth mastery.
My SP was fine by that point. I’ll probably get cloth mastery sooner and less SPR in later cbts on mages and see how that goes.
I think this happens in every mmo, mage always have a slow start compared to others, but then they’ll be really strong in the late game without the top gear meele classes will need.
40 spr cyro plate hahahaha , enchant fire too op my party addicted to it, especialy cleric and swordman who do the smack. But yeah, if you are good friend with bonfire and have good party that capable cover each other alternately while another sit and regen, high SPR not really nessesary, 10 already enough, most prolly 20 for caster cleric and wizard with good “sit” management. you got your archer and swordman buddy cover for return you keeping them alive and buff. (and yes, i talk about how wizard buffing too)
also, actually, there’s regen SP overtime, just it isnt continiously, instead, periodicaly for certain amount depend on spr. sit and bonfire cut down the “cooldown” for it. and yeah, since Kneeling isnt Sit , so it count as standing regen.
I ran a Cleric->Priest with my Wizard->Cryomancer friend, and we had one of her friends be our tank. I wasn’t spamming my spells as often as her or anything, but I was going about 2/1 int/spr so I had a decent pool, and she would run out so fast. I mean, all her damage is based off her spells, which sucks, but what really sucks is that wizards have to spend most of their money
I was able to, in boss fights, spam my spells pretty decently without having to use too many mana pots, where as the wizard had to spam mana pots and their spells. I feel like their autos aren’t too strong so almost all their damage comes from their mana. I’d really love a level 1 wizard skill that increases their mana regen or allows them to regen more often. It’d be REALLY nice. Or maybe have that be the cloth system instead of bonus sp/recov. Just have it increase how often or something. That’d be REALLY nice.
Just reporting my experience as level 64 (Wizard->Pyromancer->Psychokino):
My Attributes
Coasts with consumables:
I always try to carry 40 small SP pots, 10-15 regular SP pots + 10-15 regular HP pots and 15-30 firewood. Not to mention 1k repair coast.
I could, during my playthrough, keep this stock of recovery items most of the time! But I that’s just it, it was pretty rare to have additional money to buy attributes or refine my gear. Those rare situations were whenever I dropped a lot of gear/recipes to sell on NPCs or when I sold other class weapons on the market/auction.
Situations with SP issues:
I tried to play solo most of the time, but I also played in a lot of parties on different situations.
Let’s first talk of situations when I had no SP issues: Simple quest that required me to collect something or kill a number of mobs, those could be done solo and with no SP issue whatsoever. Provided that you rested before and had full SP before attempting to do them, bonfires help A LOT to restore your HP and SP in those situations.
Now let me detail situations where I had issues with SP.
1 - ) Killing Quest Bosses :
SOLO - Killing quest bosses solo was really hard specially past level 35-40. You can easily kill them, but you it takes a lot of time (15-30 minutes), and a lot of SP recovery items (half or sometimes my full stock of items). When you are attempting solo you don’t can’t use firewood to help since you barely have time to sit down.
Overall bosses have a LOT of health,so you need to use a lot of SKILLS to do enough damage to kill them, which requires a lot of SP. And given the current CBT exp rates, they were also likely 10 levels higher than you.
Since I was a Psychokino my primary damaging skill was Psychic Pressure, it did a lot of damage but, as you know, it drains percentage SP per second of use. So when I had opportunity to use this skill uninterrupted I would have to recover all my SP from scratch.
On higher levels, at some bosses you could die a lot if hit even once. Whenever you die, even if you have 0 SP, if you resurrect using the 1 iCoin your SP is recover to 50%. This helped a lot in killing bosses.
PARTY - Killing boss in party were 3 times faster, you still run out of SP mostly because the bosses were higher level than you and had a lot of HP. But recovering was easier. Your group could get boss aggro and you could use bonfires to help in the recovery.
2 - ) 5 Member Party Grinding for EXP :
Griding was a task that would completely deplete your SP if you didn’t used your resources wisely. You need to use pots as soon as they come back from cooldown. You should also use a bonfire and sit when your AoE skills are in cooldown.
Skills that have single target, or do little damage should not be used at all to preserve SP. In my case those were Magic Missile and Earthquake.
From Psychokino class Psychic Pressure was really bad in such situation because it drained too much SP, but sometimes you had to use to kill large quantities of mobs that nobody else could kill at the time. Telekinesis also did little damage, even when smashing the grabbed target on mobs, so it was of no use.
The most useful skills that I used often were Pyromancer Fireball and Firewall.
Also, the task of killing mobs of monsters could be really IMPROVED by having a Peltasta with max level Swash Buckiling. It was so gratifying and easier that it is a MUST HAVE in your grinding party. Linkers also help in grinding, but not as much as Peltasta.
Suggestion and Possible Problems:
The coast of SP recovery items is fine, but they don’t give enough mana to Wizard type classes.
They should give more SP per second, but this could break the balance when used by Swordsman or Archer Classes. Since those classes have different mana pools than wizard and cleric type.
I suggest that you change SP recovery items so that they recover more if you are from Wizard class. I can’t speak for Cleric because I didn’t played them enough to understand if they have mana issues or not.
EDIT: @abluejelly mention something that could be a good solution. We could make SP recovery items scale with your character INT instead of making certain class recover more from SP pots.
+1
RO was dreadfully slow without SP items to boost your longevity, especially as a mage (unless you got increase SP regen passive).
SP items were cheap though as long as you avoided blue pots
Grape juice errday
It was my lifeblood
You do realize that
Wizzie’s spending the money you spent on enhancements on mana pots, and then some. Regardless of that, enhancements is a one-time investment, which means you just need to stage your gear correctly and you won’t have money problems because of it. And because of the reduced downtime, you’ll have a very steady income on Swordie anyways.
Wizzie’s probably going to want a +5 rod/shield and a +5 staff later (with just +5 staff early on)
Wizzie’s weapon degrades with spell casts just like your degrades with attacks. Sure it’s slower (bigger hits, slower aspd), but it’s still dura degrade on attack
You’re splitting your dura degrade over 3 weapons, not all on 1, so the degrade rate (which is already fairly slow unless you’re dying all the time) is actually a lot slower than you think.
Repairs are flat, not scaled to dura missing, so managing your dura “properly” (ie: only repairing when shit’s about to break) makes your dura cost really negligible compared to income.
+50% damage on 3 out of 4 possible situations is hella strong when the wizzie’s trapped to that base damage only rate.
Wat. SP was int scaled, and matk was int scaled. Unless you were in a WoE build, SP was only a problem if when over 50% weight. And over 50% weight, my main (bolter/sp prof) never had mana problems basically ever. I had a vitata card lol.
But focusing on under 50% weight…
My Esma Linker had very few mana problems and I was eswoo/estin tanking and using high jump relatively often.
My retwoe wiz had minor mana issues in extended parties if the priest didn’t have magni-cat or we lacked a dancer / bard+link / prof.
My Priest also had no mana issues once she reached priest. I had magni-cat like anyone who wasn’t a noob (shots fired). Acolyte though, was suffering. Why are there so many mimics in Glast Heim ._.
The main difference between RO and ToS SP is that casters aren’t MAD (multiple attribute dependent) damage & mana (int) and cast speed (dex), they’re MAD damage (int) vs mana (spr) with constant cast speed.
While that change itself is perfectly fine, the scaling drives the problem ToS is having.
Mana regen is x+b
Mana pool is ax+b (seemingly, anyways)
Mana costs are ax+b
Regen doesn’t scale with your pool size or your mana costs. Thus, your mana pool size is fine for your spell costs, but regen lags waaaaay behind and you get your wizie mana problems.
I also noticed that…
I was mostly referring to early game as that was the context of the conversation. Of course the SP problem in late game was a non-issue, lol.
Early game it still wasn’t that bad outside of Aco… but then, I did all my early game caster leveling on Geos, which meant I could just pump the ever-loving-hell outta int and ignore dex until my int was high enough. Sure, Firebolt 10 took a year to cast. But it was an ohko and I had all the time on the planet to finish casting.
I mean, it only took like 30-40 dex to make Firewall fast enough to go to other places, and that was pretty easy to side-raise due to the point buy setup.
Meanwhile, Esma linkers basically ignored the problems of early game so long as you had a stat/skill resetter on your server. Otherwise their early game problems were “unarmed aspd melee class in squishy caster build”
I mostly played the game up to rebirth and Juno was a new town so Geos weren’t a thing. There were argiopes, clock tower and mi gaos tho.
- Wizzie’s spending the money you spent on enhancements on mana pots, and then some. Regardless of that, enhancements is a one-time investment, which means you just need to stage your gear correctly and you won’t have money problems because of it. And because of the reduced downtime, you’ll have a very steady income on Swordie anyways.
For each weapon a melee fighter uses, we spend over ~50k per weapon. Shield only needs to be upgraded to +3 and doesn’t cost as much to be upgraded.
Wizard: using 100k for 2 +5 weapons, plus 20k for a +3 shield. = 120k
Swords/Cleric: uses 150K for 3 +5 weapons, plus 20K for a +3 shield, so 180k
How you need to use 2 set if you were to grind, so
Wizard: 200k for 2 set of 2 +5 weapons, plus 20k for a +3 shield = 220k
Swords/Cleric: 300k for 2 set of 3 +5 weapons, plus 20k for a +3 shield = 320k
If you compare the gap of cost, that’s 100k and not is not going higher than the +5 upgrade. A wise wizard would use only Small SP potion which is 120 coin, and use clothing armour & enhance blue gems embedded into their glove for SP Recovery. So with Small SP potions, you can easily purchase over 800 Small SP potions.
- Wizzie’s probably going to want a +5 rod/shield and a +5 staff later (with just +5 staff early on)
Already include the cost to the calculation above.
- Wizzie’s weapon degrades with spell casts just like your degrades with attacks. Sure it’s slower (bigger hits, slower aspd), but it’s still dura degrade on attack
Like all classes, exception you have range, which melee has to chase the target.
- You’re splitting your dura degrade over 3 weapons, not all on 1, so the degrade rate (which is already fairly slow unless you’re dying all the time) is actually a lot slower than you think.
And we play the cost for all 3 weapon (Slash, Blunt, Pierce) repairs. We do not use all 3 weapons equally, since it depends on the mob in the area. Some map only have monster weak to a single weapon type, so we only use one type of weapon. If we were to use the wrong weapon, our damage tanks. For STR cleric, it’s +50% Bonus for ~200 damage to -50% bonus for ~50 damage which is lower than a wizard damage. Lets not forget, we’re attacking mobs of enemy, so the lost of damage exist.
It’s your fault for not being in a party if you’re dying often. You chose to solo with that risk, so there’s no sympathy there from me.
- Repairs are flat, not scaled to dura missing, so managing your dura “properly” (ie: only repairing when ■■■■’s about to break) makes your dura cost really negligible compared to income.
I didn’t bother bringing up the cost of repairs, but you can add that to the list of upgrade gap to compensate for the cost of purchasing potions.
- +50% damage on 3 out of 4 possible situations is hella strong when the wizzie’s trapped to that base damage only rate.
While Wizard is doing 100 damage base, pure STR cleric is dying 125 damage base. Your damage is not that much lower than STR cleric, and comparatively higher than INT Cleric. If your’e doing 1 damage, you’re using the wrong attack button. We also have to spam our skills, our management is from the long cooldown. 22s for heal and 27s for cure, and sometimes we don’t even manage to do any damage at all with other players stealing our heals and cure tiles doing 0 damage, where you are guarantee to do damage.
As for Swordsman, their SP is so slow, their sp gets depleted after using their skill 4-5 times. They save on SP potion by letting it naturally restore while they start to attack mobs 2-3 time. They don’t spam their skill when it’s avialable and manage it base on the situation. you want wizard to be able to spam their skills constantly nuking a crowd of mob.
Anyway, you seem to be forgetting what I said in the beginning. I’m not against Wizard getting SP Regen ability, but it needs to be available to every class. Just just playing favouritism to Wizard because every class literally suffers from it.
I agree with this. Is very hard to play solo with mage cause you dant have enough mana (SP) for long battles. Is annoying fighting quests bosses, with you full sp you can only take like 1/10 from their HP and have to deal with the rest only basic hits. Grind is a little painful too, sp potions are too expensive to buy it for farming, Swordmans and Archers have a great advante in this question.
The problem is lack of cloth armour drop early in the game. The low level area mostly drop leather armour, which is not helpful towards class that heavily rely on SP, since Cloth armour boost SP Recovery. It would be nice if gems drops early on too, this way you can use enhance a Blue Gem by using all other gems as exp. This is the best way to help with SP early in the game. You can also extra the gems from old equipments and reuse it for newer equipments.
Just a suggestion, maybe wizard type classes could learn an attribute skill from the wizard npc, allot like a sp regen skill that you have to learn from the NPC and could be levelled to 10 with increasing learning time.
