Tree of Savior Forum

SP potions, calculations on their cost effectiveness

Gameplay Feedback Item and Equipment
#1

too much circle jerking about these cosmetic prices
so let me try and direct some wrath into the cost and effectiveness of standard sp potions

heres some very rough and quick calculations i did using the numbers
im using gold instead of silver since its easier to layout and understand

small sp : 120g : 168sp total : CD 30 : effective sp, 5.6 per sec : 0.7g spent per sp

med sp : 480g : 288sp total : CD 45 : effective sp, 6.4 per sec : 1.6g spent per sp

big sp : 1080g :576sp total : CD 60 : effective sp, 9.6 per sec : 1.875g spent per sp
 

reducing all the values to match a 30 second CD like the small sp pot, results in this:

 
med sp : 320g : 192sp total : CD 30 : effective sp, 4.2 per sec (33.3% reduction to match 30 seconds)

big sp : 540g : 288sp total : CD 30 : effective sp, 4.8 per sec (50% reduction to match 30 seconds)
(gold spent per sp still remains the same)

as you can see these pots are very inefficient,
if you putt the values into the context of a 30 second CD like a small sp potion
med sp potions have 2.7x the cost of small sp potions but are only around 1.14x as effective.
even worse for big sp potions, costing 4.5x the value of small potions but only being around 1.7x as effective

i dont get why the effectiveness doesnt increase to match the cost
higher tier sp potions should provide the same effectivness for the increase in cost
i dont get why they didnt stick with making the potion effectiveness scheme linear

ofcourse the burst regen and the regen per second components are also a factor, but the raw numbers dont lie
these higher tier sp potions are simply a waste of money.

if my math is off feel free to correct me.

Name little things that bug you
#2

Well… I don’t know… I just want to say it was similar with HP pots in Ragnarok. Red potions were the most cost effective but in the heat of the battle those didn’t save you… XD So those were better for out of combat heal. I guess it’s something like that here too but I’m not sure…

#3

Buy alchemist pots - cheap, effective and 30s cd.
Problem solved

1 Like
#4

yep

the thing is, why do these even exist?
these things are huge noob traps.
are they ment to be an alternative if alch pots become ridiculously expensive?
maybe they are there just to drive people away from buying them
which kinda makes sense if they want people to start circulating their own potions.

im trying to understand what purpose these items serve, if any.

#5

Because they are for early game when ppl still not reach rank 6 (Alch) yet and for newbie pre-level 100 just got to the game or don’t even know those pots selling in market.
An Alchemist can makes thousand of pots in a few hours while afk, there is no reason for them to become expensive.

The pots system is almost perfect, i don’t see anyone complaint about it in CB2.

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#6

hmmm

early game pot usage is mostly small sp potions
the large and medium potions are clearly for higher levels of play where alchemists do exist

they used to cost less in iCBT 2 which is probably why no one complained,
if i remeber it was around 480 or 600 for big pots
lvl 5 alch pots in iCBT were around 600-650 which was clearly based on the cost of the big sp potions

these new costs will probably drive the prices of alch pots up,
seriously…
1080 silver for a very lack luster amount of sp regen.
compounded by the fact that money is slower this time around
its pretty ridiculous if you ask me.

this is probably gonna go under the radar since everyone is occupied with other things IMC have done =/

#7

Alchemist is a very popular class and thanks to the versatility of it’s crafting can be picked up at basically any rank after you get it, cosidering how SP demanding many Wizard builds are a lot of people take at least one Rank off in Alchemist for the better potions and independance they get.
Basically at the end of things at least the Lv5 Concentrated SP Potions are going to be fairly cheap in the market.

#8

yea
the prices of alch pots are irrelevant

it still comes back to the point of why these things exist
if alch pots are gonna be the go to standard
then why are these noob traps still here?

alch pots should be superior but basic pots should not suck the money out of anyone who dares to use them.

#9

Because part of the development mentality of IMC in making the game is to leave as many roles as possible to the players.
See alo the high cost of repairing to the NPC (remember what happened that one time in the beta? yeah that’s the standar) comapred to with an Squire, the later also being a better repair to begin with.

#10

do you even play the the kr version lol?
the NPC repairs were lowered as early as day 2 in the OBT
yes they were stupidly high but now they are not…

squire repairs are more expensive comparatively but they give more
which what the relationship between normal pots and alch pots should be.

#11

I don’t live in korea nor see the point in going trough all the trouble of getting a Nexon account, so yeah.
Well then that part was wrong, but the point still comes across I hope.

#12

With the removal of 1:1 trading, buy-in shops, and free players being limited to selling 1 item at a time on the Market, I see these potions getting a lot more use as Alch will probably have more difficulty in obtaining materials for potion crafting

#13

Nope, even in icbt2
120 basic
480 small
1080 large (only available at Fedimian)

It’s a trade off of quality vs quantity

Sure in grinding basic/small will do for you, but if you’re competing with other people for that world boss cubes, you want all the SP to use all the skills you want, and especially for Wiz/Cleric class that basic will no longer suffice. (Archer never have enough for spam, and with the new Skyliner Highlander is joining the SP chugging train)

#14

=/

maybe im just feeling the effects of being poor lol
i am playig a skyliner spam build but im only leaving at lvl 5

they should add more tiers in between, the sudden jump from 120 per pot to 480 is huge, then another jump to 1080, this destroys peoples wallets, especially with how slow money is currently

then later on they become obsolete when alchs start setting up shop

#15

Bonfire is still most efficient and scales with your level. (and given the loading screen tips, they most likely plan to add ‘cooking’ to bonfire at one point in the future)

You want to save money? Bonfire or just afk in town. Want to spam everything? Chug that big pot.

And while Alch is likely to be popular and one of the earliest Alch/Squire will make loads, they’re not on-demand (and price can fluctuate), these will always be there.

#16

meh
ill make more money(thus saving more) chuging lower lvl pots with lower lvl skills, its just that the progression of chuging bigger pots and using higher lvl skills doesnt align well with how much your spending for them
as seen with archers having lvl 1 oblique, till alch pots come along.

.

#17

[quote=“yodish92, post:1, topic:126307”]
i dont get why the effectiveness doesnt increase to match the costhigher tier sp potions should provide the same effectivness for the increase in cost
[/quote]Its normal for games to increase prices exponentially with linear growth in effectiveness (it is the same with attributes). Also NPC items and equips are not meant to be efficient - they are there for convenience.

#18

the small sp potions trumps both the medium and big pots for the money you spend, so there is really no need to ever buy them, which is why im saying they are redundant

i can see where your coming from, but still, the prices need to be reduced
by 40-30%, they are still inefficient but they would at least be affordable enough to use until alch pots come along

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#19

Thats a common tradeoff as well: either you go for money efficiency (silver per sp spent) with small potions or time efficiency (sp per second) by choosing more expensive larger potions.

You want to have both which is understandable but not exactly healthy for game balance.

#20

the thing is you get both with alch pots
thats why im questioning why these things are even here =/

i get that alch pots are rarer, but soon they will start coming en masse when people start selling them
probably why they wanted to disable trading to yourself tbh, so people dont make alchs just to supply themselves lol, unless they have a 2nd account