Tree of Savior Forum

Some truths about game industry and why IMC failed

I’ve been wondering for some time if i was going to make this post, because i know it won’t change IMC ways of business, but i just hope i make some players come to their senses and realize what’s going on.

I’m not going to talk about much in-game problems because the source of them is not developer fault but executive instead.

English isn’t my mother language so there may be typos or wrong spelling, but it’s not so bad to the point you can’t understand.

Understanding how eastern market see players:

When you look at at these oriental games that are brought to the west, you notice one thing: they’re eye candy. The main appeal to the buyer is aways good looks. It’s not only game industry that works that way in Korea, diva/idol pop bands and TV shows also appeal to beauty and good looks instead of intellectual content and the sort. This has created a mindless public that gives no importance to in-depth content and other qualities that are the most important here in the west. The companies know that people will buy their product by impulse, and it doesn’t matter if they regret later because the profit was calculated in short terms. That’s why these companies release new games all the time, and never stick to just a couple. I could mention here many examples of these: TERA, ArcheAge, Blade & Soul, Black Desert and so on.

When you look at things that way, the way of making a game is directly affected by this ideology, because they give no importance to programming and monetizing. The game just has to look beautiful and appealing to the potential buyer. This caused IMC and other companies to prioritize designers, artists and the sort instead of skeptical programmers. The game engine is poor and has little room for long term development, which we can notice at all these beta issues that still persist while launching.

Another important factor to notice is how punishment works in Korea. Koreans have their phone numbers linked to their SSN numbers so only one number is allowed per citizen, and most games use two-step authentication. This makes things a lot easier for online punishing, and game companies totally skip anti-cheat and hacking acknowledgements because players are too afraid to cheat and lose the permission to play that game forever. When these games are brought to western market, they are aways full of exploits and vulnerabilities because korean developers made it just for the east.

The opacity of the company can’t hide it’s ideals.

I’ve worked in big companies of many kind, and i kinda figured out some patterns that usually reveal what “boss” wants.
First, when the CEO or lead developer never engages in dialogue with community, it means that are not really worried about feedback, this may be because they plan to use cheap marketing tactics or because that specific game is just a little cog in their company and they don’t have time for it. Instead, they hire a team of community managers that will “filter” the most important feedback and give proper answers for the playerbase. These community managers often don’t understand much about game design or programming, and give a whole different message to their bosses, resulting in many half-measures and lack of new content.

There is also a huge pressure from chief and associates for scheduled goals, such as launch day, and this forces developers to look for coding shortcuts and low testing, resulting in 0-day chaos, bad servers and low optimization. Community members are also afraid off bringing some topics to the table because they know it would only put their job in risk, Julie is an example of this.

The monetizing meta.

Capitalism works in a way that everyday there are new ways to make money. There is also a “meta” in the game business and only a few companies are aware of it. The rest of them are doomed to fail and lower the standard of game quality, and that’s why i hate them so much.

The term “free” in no ways mean that the game shoudn’t be AAA quality. I personally give this credit to Blizzard and Riot Games. They figured out very soon that the profit from F2P can be overwhelming bigger than P2P, and we could say they are currently the richest and most loved gaming companies right now.

Conclusion.

Given the previous thoughts i can affirm that IMC is one of those low-standard gaming industries. Tree of Savior targeted the old Ragnarok and overall otaku community with an extremely beauty appealing game, and everyone fell for it. The CEO’s plan is to get the maximum profit with minimum effort, just like the previous game they made, Granado Espada.

The current game market is reaching a really high standard and there is no room for people with such cheap tactics. If i could advise IMC, i would say they should have launched this game 5 to 10 years ago, because it can’t survive in the present.

I won’t be surprised if they delete this, but it doesn’t matter because it will be posted on reddit too.

Thanks for reading.

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The game 100% wouldn’t have survived back then, when the amount of new MMOs were so high and there were so many fun and social MMOs around, all pandering to the social MMO communities.

Think for even a second, why would anyone have chosen ToS over Ragnarok, Mabinogi, Trickster or literally any MMO outside of the graphical aspects (which nobody could handle because of the horrid optimization plus older specs)?

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All I read are personal opinion. No concrete data, stats or reference.

In fact, most of it are assumptions and having a conclusion based on those which are far from the truth.

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Failed would imply that they should close the servers down and give up.

I think they made some poor decisions with lack of insight and a lack of vision but I really don’t think it’s too late for them to recover if they make the right moves.

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My text is heavily based on the ideas this channel provides. There is a lot of data and all the sort you need to believe me there.

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@jgfms
I’ve saw some videos and… sometime I wanted to slap them. People watch them because they are kinda the only one who “give” advices for indy devs.

For me, it’s better to watch big communities because you’ve “live” reactions. Yeah, sometime they’re harsh (just like here) but at least there is a diverstiy of different kind of players.

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That is good but still, it is assuming what they are doing. It is easy to say they are money-grabbing company, art is the only factor, etc and move on to the next without any proof. I can name more possibilities than that and assume as much in my observation. It still doesn’t give any light to this “truth” of what they are actually doing.

Anyway, I’m not that interested in these topics, no offense but I am more into class builds, so I’ll be on my way.

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How about trying to maintain a modern game in countries that has outdated internet infrastructures and even worse regulations. The only failure I see IMC MADE with SA is not researchin enough into how SA players perceives mmo

When IRO was released in 2002, it had much more intense server issues than ToS. The IRO servers died after 2 days, then stuttered around for months before stabilizing. The novice map was unplayable due to having 1k+ players sprites on screen. So tell me, how is it better then ToS?

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Companies didn’t have much experience that time, and the effort wasn’t this big. Look at Overwatch perfect launch with few or no lag issues on day 0, that’s where you want to be. As i said, the standard is higher each day.

  1. Understanding how eastern market see players:

You’re wrong because western games care as much as asian games about aesthetics.

Or did you missed all those eye candy trailers ?
Evolve: https://youtu.be/JsLR808dVAw
Overwatch: https://youtu.be/VlGBxqMze00
Destiny: https://youtu.be/clRpcIHpmoY
Etc…
You’re free to Google search if you want some in game example but I assure, they’re eye candy.

It’s just that asian devs prefer more mmorpgs rahter than mmos.

I really doubt that the punishement system you’re mentioning are really the main reason because I’ve know many westerns games which have poor coding/bad optimisation (Dragon age Inquistion or Stellaris at launch anyone?) too and were vulnerable. Coding isn’t that simple that you can have a 90% protected/bugless game.

The opacity of the company can’t hide it’s ideals.


Are you bringing staff Julie up ?
Can’t any employee quit his job without seeming suspicious ?
Or are you looking for drama ?

Also, from my own experience it doesn’t matter if it’s a PR or CEO who talk to players. Ok, better to have a PR who know his stuff about video gaming otherwise he will been look as an idiot.

Why ?
Because I’ve read with my own eyes, people shitting on CEO of Nintendo, Iwata even when he was apalogizing dying in his bed!!! CEO apologizing ? People didn’t give a damn. Did you gave a damn while writing your message ?

No people don’t care who they talk to, they just want someone to talk to! Don’t bring up some bullshit. As long as the devs listen to players, players don’t care who they talk to.

The monetizing meta.
I don’t know about Riot company but Blizzard was able to launch F2P games because they had money to backup their develloppement.

But look at their lastest game, Overwatch, cost 40$ on pc and 60$ on console. That pricing make people cringe but fortunaly Blizzard as a solid reputation and fan base.

No, not all companies are doomed to fail otherwise mmo mobile games would be dying while they’re super mega healthy same with mmorpgs FF14.

You just have to find the right balance of “carrot and stick”. Same for a lot of western consoles games with their seaon pass and dlcs.
You just have to find the right recipe and people will say “amen”.

Given the previous thoughts i can affirm that IMC is one of those low-standard gaming industries.
I prefer to call them indy devs just like the guys who made pillars of Eternity and Wasteland. They’re pro to but they’re called indy devs.

The current game market is reaching a really high standard and there is
no room for people with such cheap tactics. If i could advise IMC, i
would say they should have launched this game 5 to 10 years ago, because
it can’t survive in the present.

Again, you’re wrong.
Pc gaming has never been more healthy than before.
It’s the perfect time for indy devs to try to go out and take their chances.
The pc market is enough big and hungry.

What IMC needs is to polish their game, stabilise servers, bring none stop content/event and offer decent/reasonable dlcs prices.

Conclusion
Why I’ve the impression/feelings that I just replied to a topic of “Nintendo is doomed” ? Cause, they same kind of nonesense were brought up ?

So what I said before stand, watching videos about game devs to be able to pass judgements on a dev company ?
Seriously ?..

Better make a biography on a company instead so you can dig up all the bullshit they did. It will be wiser. Just like how people now how bad is Nexon with customer support, because of it’s multiple failure since the past with past games and actual games.

Edit: you’ve the right to say that you dislike the game but that’s it. Mixing stuff that is beyond your knowledge isn’t a wise thing to do. Specialy when you don’t know at all how big the pc market is and how hungry are Steam gamers for about anything.

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I think we have to be realistic here. Blizzard has millions to throw so does Riot Games. We as client on general don’t really care how much the developers spend, but if we look into it, I highly doubt IMC has the equivalent budget. In the software industry this days, the cost is soo high that most developers will just be tempted to release the software slightly early to get funding. If there’s any mistake IMC made, its to release the game in a unready state in F2P. Those that paid early access know what they are getting into. But once F2P comes, everyone will change to gauging it as a ready game which it isn’t. And the crowd really don’t help a software that’s already buggy to start with. Totally aggravated the server.

That said, many games went through worst time. I always love to point at FF14. Its lucky that square enix has tons of money to burn to recover and make realm reborn which today is probably second in subscription. I dont think IMC wants to be greedy, but every day delay is a lost. In the mist of trying to please everyone (stakeholders included) they made a critical error but at least in the pass 2 days they started to be a little more active.

Base on what I see though, they will probably need another 3-6 months just to fix bulk of the critical errors. Maybe between then and now, constantly patching the server and launch some more founders pack to help recoup their cost and make everyone happy. Actually we gamers are not always unreasonable, we like every customer want to feel taken care off.

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The fck are you saying? Hakkyu Kim created both, ToS and RO.

Of course every game uses eye candy, by the way they are way prettier than ToS, the difference between these three and ToS is that they have solid, strong game engines and some original ideas, and of course much more content.

That’s basically everything a game needs besides being pretty. You just proved i’m right when i said ToS is all about eye candy and the rest doesn’t matter.

For those saying it’s easy to make AAA games when you already have the money to invest, meet Path of Exile. It’s kinda more successful than Diablo 3, and it received a lot of positive reviews. They started from nothing, and had a somewhat small office in new zealand when they begun. So no, budget is not that limiting when it comes to quality.

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er stop contradicting one another.

Game won’t survive, and they won’t care. you make it sound like they will care all of sudden.

If you want to see a real example of a mmo company who shooted itself in the foot, look at this: https://youtu.be/vsgoD74vLIo

IMC isn’t close to it so there is still hope.

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by “they” i mean the players that bought by impulse

Your point was perfectly understandable, even for someone like myself for whom english isn’t his mother tongue, i guess he probably read too fast.