Okay you have proof you’ve seen NPC’s with no quests. That doesn’t rule out you just not being able to access them. And you really can’t argue with the fact that most NPC you find spread out in the open world areas have quests. I can’t think of a single example where it isn’t just a guard.
Like I said, I believe ToS has a lot of room to improve on achieving the goal of open gameplay. I just don’t believe this will help that goal at all. You could keep every current aspect of the game as-is, and just add more maps of similar levels with different types of mobs, and be a lot closer to that goal.
How does that change anything? Adding more of the same half arsed content doesn’t make that same content better in any way it just means there’s more of. And there is already lots of it 600 Levels worth and 200+ areas worth. Removing indicators on important quests only adds unnecessary confusion, and adds nothing in the form of freedom as the quests are just as linear as they were before they were hidden. I started this thread thinking that maybe having some of the quests still hidden to appeal to those who seem to like it, but after several good points about how currently irrelevant that would be and poor counter arguments defending hidden quests while also out right neglecting those who like visible quest indicators, i’m beginning to have a change of heart.
Well-- the point was that it doesn’t change anything.
Having more maps adds nothing new but keeps in-step with the aspect of “exploration”.
New maps with quest indicators will not get explored, as players will make bee-lines for the NPCs, not take their time to enjoy the scenery that I believe a bit of effort was put into.
Quest indicators would also generally turn any NPC that didn’t have one over their heads into an unnecessary piece of furniture in the eyes of the player. Decorations, rather than Non-Player-Characters, would be the best description for them.
I enjoy not being spammed with dozens upon dozens of “you can now go to this person to receive your delicious EXP juice, but you gotta do a favor for them first~” indications.
That’s merely my opinion.
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As far as open exploration goes, having more maps with different types of mobs at the same level ( flying, grounded, stab-weak, blunt-weak, different groupings, different drops ) creates a game of experimentation and encourages exploration in order to find what you need. Either the most efficient spot for your specific class / build to level, or the spot that drops the reagents you need for a specific item. It’s only a small suggestion that would go towards the goal of creating a better open world experience, not a full solution.
Considering quests, I don’t think we will agree, and I don’t believe you will accept any argument as valid that is not your own.
Sorry for huge delay, I couldn’t get on the forums till now, they were broken for me.
As for your points I honestly don’t think having them hidden or not really matters whether to the player decides to explore, read the text or not. If there’s no indicators players can just as easily go around and talk to every npc skipping all there dialogue. If there is indicators people who want to skip the dialogue can do it alot easier as they won’t be constantly repeating the same conversation with the npc’s to see if a quest updated, and they also won’t be missing out on any quest.
If you want to read the quest lines and invest yourself into the main and side stories you still can. Why let indicators spoil your fun? It doesn’t make sense and just seems like a petty reason. And if you still want there to be some hidden quests than like I said then why not have there be some? Make some of the NPC’s in the open world who are actually doing something have them. Like an NPC in the middle of no where fixing a bridge. He may ask you to get some wood from killing these conveniently placed wood like creatures. In return instead of giving you exp he might give you an accessory or weapon aswell as progress into an achievement into finding a hidden quest.
You can also say the same for yourself. All you’re doing is saying you want hidden quests without giving thought to the people who just find it annoying. While i’m here trying to find the middle ground.
Side quest marking will make an incredible amount of worthless clutter. I will vote no. Even repeatable and dailies should not be marked in my opinion.
Repeatable - you will remember the location the 2nd time you do it, more so the position of a daily quest.
Nothing else besides Main quest and Job Change should be marked, as it is in iCBT1.
Marking them has very little benefit to playability, especially they are supposed to be “optional”.
1 Like
But you’re argument is exactly strong… It’s just you forcing your own opinion onto to others despite what they might want…
Again the reason I stress dailys and repeatable is because of their importance, basically if you so happen to miss (your own fault or not) then you’ll be down quite a large portion of your exp, which isn;t exactly fair. And simply put marking them having very little benefit is just a straight out lie, it’s pretty clear what the benefit is, that being you can actually see them and you won’t miss one nor one that pops up after another quest line.
As for:
Having them hidden or shown will have nothing to do with this. People who want to click through everything will nothing will stop them. People who want to read everything will still do so, it’s silly to think having them marked will change that. Such as myself I like to read all quests and even npc chatter, well mostly everything. There’re certain underwhelming side-quests i’ll probs scim through.
[quote=“Jowdan3006, post:48, topic:36589”]
Again the reason I stress dailys and repeatable is because of their importance, basically if you so happen to miss (your own fault or not) then you’ll be down quite a large portion of your exp, which isn;t exactly fair.
[/quote]And again, there isn’t anything unfair about it. They can go back and do them once they notice they missed something. I’ve also already commented on the “but they will have to search through all NPCs” part.
Daily’s huh? You mean like Mabinogi?
I still remember what Daily’s did for mabi… instead of having actual satisfying rewards, they were just exp sponges. They gave no reason for someone to do anything but the daily missions and logoff till the next day. I know because I was one of those people.
Anyway… that’s not what we’re talking about. Quest markers huh?
I was kind of surprised they decided to pull that stunt where they shove you in the middle of nowhere with no quest markers. Honestly, I was impressed they would do something bold like that. We’re used to having our hands held in most games these days. I remember panicking and thinking that the content wasn’t implemented yet.
Sure, map progression was linear… (and if you’re going to bring up that argument, then why do you even need to argue about quest markers to begin with?) but there was this strange sense of exploration I felt having no idea where to go. And you might say, you can toggle it off… but what’s the thrill of discovering things where the information is so easily accessible?
Actually, there was one quest that didn’t even have a quest marker when I found it. Took me a few hours to figure that one out and I got something… special… that I’ll probably only tell my friends about.
The thrill of adventure, not knowing where to go… all of that is meaningless if you ask someone where to go and they just tell you “Why don’t you just turn on your quest marker?” That whole sense of immersion is practically broken for the option even being there.
I’ll stay quiet and accept whatever IMCgames has to offer, but this is my two cents. (also, I hate repeatable quests, I’d rather hunt something I personally want to hunt then be forced to go through the same stupid quest over and over again because it’s the fastest way to level up)
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[quote=“mirioki, post:50, topic:36589”]
Actually, there was one quest that didn’t even have a quest marker when I found it. Took me a few hours to figure that one out and I got something… special… that I’ll probably only tell my friends about.
[/quote]Are you by any chance talking about that missing girl?
Dude just stop it you can tell that ur kinda alone with your opinion and i tell you why.
The whole point (at least a big part of this game) of this game is exploration. And you should know this since Tos even goes with hidden classes which no other game would ever do since it cost money to create a class and it would be ridc to limit it. But hey the Tos team is amazing they know what ppl need after the last 10 years of mmo trash. Hand holding like were dumbass retarded ppl who need someone who tells us 24h what we should do and where to go. Im sick of this games if you want hand holding than plz there are at least 10000 other mmo.
PS: Sry if it is a little bit to aggresiv but srsly im sick of this generic hand holding mmo which die after 3 weeks because ppl reached max lvl and are full eq.
i went a little bit off topic. So your point is make the game easier you want marks for quest etc. but it would ruin the exploring part so NO from my side.
Yes but how would you know you’ve missed something? They’ll be stuck grinding, wondering why it’s so difficult to level up.
Your personal view on daily’s aside, they’re still in the game and yes are big exp boosts. Only currently there’s a chance that if you don;t speak to every NPC on the map, you might miss one and have to grind for a few hours instead.
I was suggesting daily’s and repeatable to be the quests that were flagged, that’s why it was relevant to discuss them.
Because it’s still annoying when you may happen to miss one, or have to go through speaking to the same NPC’s again to see if anything new has poped up yet. And a counter argument would be why remove something to gain nothing from it then? (Leaning on that the fact the quest are all Linear, with false sense of freedom)
But you do know where to go, again the game is very, very Linear and quests markers or not it doesn’t stop you from doing what you want. You can choose to ignore them or not plenty of people do it’s not hard at all, why make it harder for others for your own satisfaction?
All these counter arguments aside, I still think my suggestion about having both would be the best answer and can;t see why you would disagree with it. Repeatables, daily’s and important side quests that gear you up and give exp to level you to next zone should all be visible, thus stopping people from having to over grind and complain. However quests that are out in the open where you actually have to go and explore (you know that thing you like doing) should be hidden and be more rewarding. How can you argue with that? It’s a very fair middle ground.
[quote=“Jowdan3006, post:53, topic:36589”]
Yes but how would you know you’ve missed something? They’ll be stuck grinding, wondering why it’s so difficult to level up.
[/quote]We’re spinning in circles here.
Questing in ToS is handholding to the extreme. The only difference is you have a small % chance that the NPC outside of town you’re talking to doesn’t give a quest. The quests all have their areas clearly labeled at the same level World of Warcraft does.
I’d prefer if they made quests like Runescape quests - not a way to level insomuch as a way to use your level. They’d either be epic, story-filled adventures with awesome loot for the taking or just weird kooky errands that give novelty rewards.
Quests in ToS are just another kind of mindless grind, mainly, although the bosses are kinda fun I guess (if they didn’t have such enormous HP pools).
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You only half refuted one of my replies. They may happen to find it a know of them if someone asks yes, though some people like to play solo and might not even ask, or some may just not ask as they didn’t think of it. But finding out doesn’t mean you’ll find them all, I don’t know how many repeatables and daily’s there are but it’s unlikely you’ll be able tell much in the higher lvl zones. There could be 15x repeatable like that in miners village in a lvl 200 zone which gives you almost a level from completing them all. But if you happen to miss it, it’s unlikely you’ll ask about one. You’ll just have to grind for an hour or so as you’re already used to it. But it would kinda piss me off knowing that it was there and I didn’t know about it, wouldn’t you agree? Or are you suggesting one simply questions where the repeatable and daily’s are after every zone? If so why not just mark them and make it easier? Since they are you know just daily’s and it gets pretty silly when someone has to tell you where they are. Kinda defeating your whole exploration idea.
[quote=“Jowdan3006, post:56, topic:36589”]
They may happen to find it a know of them if someone asks yes, though some people like to play solo and might not even ask, or some may just not ask as they didn’t think of it.
[/quote]If they like playing solo, why are they playing an MMO? And they will certainly think of it once they run into the grind. And if they don’t, then grind is what they like more, anyway.
[quote=“Jowdan3006, post:56, topic:36589”]
But finding out doesn’t mean you’ll find them all, I don’t know how many repeatables and daily’s there are but it’s unlikely you’ll be able tell much in the higher lvl zones.
[/quote]That’s part of the game. And once you know there are quests there, you will go back and look through all maps and NPCs you haven’t talked to - I know I would. This gives map exploration an incentive. I even go back to maps I’ve already been to only to re-visit the NPCs and see if they have something new for me.
[quote=“Jowdan3006, post:56, topic:36589”]
But if you happen to miss it, it’s unlikely you’ll ask about one. You’ll just have to grind for an hour or so as you’re already used to it.
[/quote]I don’t see the problem, unless we go back to your definition of “unfairness”. Which again, begs the question why it is unfair in the first place. Getting stuff you didn’t bother looking for handed to you is the epitome of unfairness to the ones who looked for it, not the other way around.
[quote=“Jowdan3006, post:56, topic:36589”]
If so why not just mark them and make it easier? Since they are you know just daily’s and it gets pretty silly when someone has to tell you where they are. Kinda defeating your whole exploration idea.
[/quote]If you don’t want to feel silly having to be told where the quests are, look for them yourself. Again, you’re arguing to simply hand stuff to people without any effort. Let’s go on a hyperbole here and just implement a built-in bot that plays the game for you. Or, you could watch streams and let people wanting to actually play the game, play it.
[quote=“Skendya, post:55, topic:36589”]
Questing in ToS is handholding to the extreme. The only difference is you have a small % chance that the NPC outside of town you’re talking to doesn’t give a quest. The quests all have their areas clearly labeled at the same level World of Warcraft does.
[/quote]At least there is a minimal effort involved in finding the NPCs, because they are not marked by shiny flags on the map even before you enter their vicinity.
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No need to go to extremes, using hyperbole to back your argument only lessons your original statement as you only seem like you have to cling to such extremes to make your pint. Ignoring that all I can hear are poor excuses at backing an issue which you’ve stated with:
The minimal effort just emphasizing why bother making something difficult and risk making people lives harder for such little gain? You seem to think that making the quest hidden makes it somehow more challenging and rewarding when you find them. Which it simply isn’t they are still handed to you on a platter at plentiful amounts. Only this time you might miss a few and it’s more annoying to find them all. By the time you’ve gone back through all the zones to complete all these generic side quests you’ll be way over leveled and the rewards are meaningless, making it more of a chore. Of course if you implemented my suggestion about reducing the amount of hidden quest as a whole but making them more rewarding I think most prefer that over now useless at your level exp boosts.
I also see no effort or attempts from you trying to find a middle ground and you seem to keep ignoring my suggestion of making it fair for both types of players.
If I had to cling to hyperbole to make my point, I’d use it the first time you tried to debunk them. I have nothing to add to the points I’ve already made, as I’m not interested to cycle through the argument chain a third time.
Then do it, this is a forum made specifically for discussing suggestions on gameplay. Don’t just make a useless reply saying “I could refute you in a reply, but I don’t really feel like it”. Only lessons your arguments more so. Talk about a straw man come back. See what I did there?