Does carnivory scale with both int and spr?
No, the damage on Carnivory only receives a bonus from your Magic Attack (which is based on INT). SPR does not effect it in any way.
Would my initial hybrid build still work well with Druid?
Yes, it would. 
It could also still work with a Cleric 2, Plague Doctor build if that is the playstyle you prefer.
With the stats you already have allocated, you could end up with a Druid build similar to this one (jump to 3:20 if you want to see her stats):
Which does damage like this:
And this:
Keep in mind those damage values were before the Blessing buff, so it does even more now with either of the stats.
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Looks like druid it is. Well hopefully a stat reset potion drops from the next treasure hunt.
Btw i still suggest u wait at least until rank 8 sneak peek out, cos who knows what might be in store next haha
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I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to say something to make you change your plan for your character. :S I just wanted to make it clear to other people that SPR is not the end-all of the Chaplain class and it is ignorant to just go around parroting that to everyone asking for advice without considering the ranks beyond Chaplain, which make a world of difference.
The buff to Blessing was implemented because otherwise INT Priests and Chaplains outperform SPR Priests and Chaplains - this change was added in order to try and narrow that gap, though it still isn’t as effective as I would like. (I want more excuses to love my SPR Chaplain! T_T I do love it, it just makes a better support than a damage dealer - the INT Druid 2 is the hardcore damage dealer) At least it’s a good start in trying to level the playing field.
If you are interested in the possibilities of going a Druid Chaplain, I have some damage formulas here that might be useful, too. For ease of comparison I’m going to compare a pure INT vs pure SPR build here.
Pure INT Build: 579 INT (859 magic attack)
Pure SPR Build: 366 SPR (286 magic attack)
Pure INT Blessing (lvl 15): 579 x 0.02 x 14 + 170 = 332 damage
Pure SPR Blessing (lvl 15): 366 x 0.06 x 14 + 170 = 477 damage
These two Blessings have a difference of 145 damage.*
“Base Damage” means the damage the skill gives, any multipliers or additions, and magic attack. I believe most formulas refer to this as “Effective Damage”
^ This thread contains more information as to how the damage formulas truly work, but I am simplifying it a bit and ignoring a lot of other influencing factors like gear and other skills (such as Sacrement) and their effects to these skills.
@kfmc08 I think this answers what you were asking about why INT is a considerable option.
The main thing to keep in mind as to why INT can often be better than SPR (specially when you chose lots of ranks from rank 6+ that scale with INT) is because it can be multiplied in ways that Blessing cannot. I REPEAT: Magic Attack from INT can be multiplied by attributes!
Blessing goes on as extra damage (“Bonus Damage”) after everything else is said and done. But INT adds to Magic Attack, which can be added to the skill and it can be multiplied by 2 with percentage of damage attributes. That provides a LOT more scaling than Blessing alone and I don’t understand why people don’t get that?
INT Build:
Aspergillum (lvl 15 Aspersion): 1,251 base damage + 332 Blessing = 1,583 damage
Aspergillum (lvl 15 Aspersion) w/ 100% Attribute: 1,251 x 2 = 2,502 base damage + 332 Blessing = 2,823 damage
Cure lvl 5 (per tick, can tick 20 times): 1,566 base damage + 332 Blessing = 1,898 damage
Cure lvl 5 (per tick, can tick 20 times) w/ 100% Attribute: 1,566 base damage x 2 = 3,132 + 332 Blessing = 3,464 damage
Heal lvl 5 (per tile): 1,505 + 332 Blessing = 1,837 damage
Heal lvl 5 (per tile) w/ 100% Attribute: 1,505 x 2 = 3,010 base damage + 332 Blessing = 3,342 damage
Carnivory lvl 10 (per tick, can tick 40 times): 2,701 base damage + 332 Blessing = 3,033 damage
Carnivory lvl 10 (per tick, can tick 40 times) w/ 100% Attribute: 2,701 x2 = 5,402 base damage + 332 Blessing = 5,734 damage
Totals without attributes:
Cure 20 ticks: 37,960
Heal 5 tiles: 9,185
Carnivory 40 ticks: 121,320
Total damage of all ticks and a single Aspergillum hit: 170,048
Totals with 100% attributes:
Cure 20 ticks: 69,300
Heal 5 tiles: 16,710
Carnivory 40 ticks: 229,360
Total damage of all ticks and a single Aspergillum hit: 318,193
SPR Build:
Aspergillum (lvl 15 Aspersion): 678 base damage + 366 SPR = 1,044 + 477 Blessing = 1,521 damage
Aspergillum (lvl 15 Aspersion) w/ 100% Attribute: 678 base damage x2 = 1,356 base damage + 366 SPR = 1,722 + 477 Blessing = 2,199 damage
Cure lvl 5 (per tick, can tick 20 times): 299 base damage + 447 Blessing = 746 damage
Cure lvl 5 (per tick, can tick 20 times) w/ 100% Attribute: 299 base damage x 2 = 598 + 447 Blessing = 1,045 damage
Heal lvl 5 (per tile): 353 base damage + 447 Blessing = 800 damage
Heal lvl 5 (per tile) w/ 100% Attribute: 353 x 2 = 706 base damage + 447 Blessing = 1,153 damage
Carnivory lvl 10 (per tick, can tick 40 times): 2,128 base damage + 477 Blessing = 2,605 damage
Carnivory lvl 10 (per tick, can tick 40 times) w/ 100% Attribute: 2,701 x2 = 4,256 base damage + 477 Blessing = 4,733 damage
Totals without attributes:
Cure 20 ticks: 14,920
Heal 5 tiles: 4,000
Carnivory 40 ticks: 104,200
Total damage of all ticks and a single Aspergillum hit: 124,641
Totals with 100% attributes:
Cure 20 ticks: 20,900
Heal 5 tiles: 5,865
Carnivory 40 ticks: 189,320
Total damage of all ticks and a single Aspergillum hit: 218,284
As you can see from the numbers, if you are considering the damage of Aspergillum and Blessing alone, the damage is very similar for both builds, but it is the other areas that really make INT Chaplains shine.
One other thing to keep in mind, is Magic Attack from weapons and such can get added into the base damage and multiplier effect of attributes. So for example, my Catacombs Club gives 303 Magic Attack, which gets fed into those base damage formulas and adds 606 extra damage with 100% attributes.
If you’ve ever heard people say “Chaplain damage falls off real hard in end game” damage like you can see on Carnivory here is what they’re referring to. Carnivory does twice the damage of Aspergillum with only 1 tick! If Carnivory ticks for all 40 ticks it has, you’re looking at over 200k damage just from pressing one button one time. So sitting there auto-attacking stuff as your only form of reliable damage is not helpful end game. (and this is coming from someone who plays Chaplains because she loves to sit there and smack stuff, but I also don’t want to get steamrolled by high level mobs while doing so)
*In reference to the 145 difference in Blessing damage seen above. I don’t know about other people, but I would prefer to lose 145 damage per hit on things from Blessing to gain the thousands of damage I pick up other places from having high Magic Attack that can get multiplied by 2 while that 145 Blessing damage stays flat.
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Wow that comment so hardcore man
One last thing i wanna add is about friends or try to get a fixed party or guild.
If i’m not mistaken, carnivory on 5 linked mobs only takes 1 hit count. Additional lines of dmg from AA doesn’t get shared.
QS AA benefits alot from blessing+sacra+lastrites. Hard hitting skills like snipe, meteor, etc only got one blessing proc. Pets, zombies, templeshooter, etc doesnt get blessing.
Sterea trofh benefits party with no cc (on mobs), but with some cc perhaps druid loses to pd. Barrier and chortasmata doesnt work well.
Etc. Etc. Not all combination work well, but some can definitely shine others.
Later 2 druid C3 should be permanent aoe invulnerability huehuehue. 2 same class in a party isnt good, so non meta druid (like druid chap) might get party (i hope)
This actually made me prefer SPR more because giving some full STR person/s 292 crit rate with a zalcai scroll should make up for the ~100k less damage.
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I don’t know if I’m understanding what you mean, could you please elaborate? Zalciai gives Critical Attack, not Critical Rate. A SPR heavy character using that would not make a full STR person crit more often, it would only increase their base crit attack when they do actually crit, which with a full STR build would be very rarely and that would not easily make up for such a huge damage gap unless there is something else you are accounting for that I am missing. Critical Attack pretty much functions like extra Physical Attack that will only be added in when a player crits, that has very limited uses. Still, it is another bonus to the party to account for and that is always good.
It wouldn’t help the Chaplain or any other magic damage dealer, though. Magic can’t crit and most of a Chaplain’s damage is magic, the only line of Chaplain damage that can crit is the basic first attack that is considered Physical Attack, and with the Chaplain not having any STR, that crit would be low even when it does hit. The other lines of damage from Chaplain’s auto attacks are all considered magic damage because they come from buffs.
There are other influencing factors that do make SPR Chaplains great that I didn’t pull out the math for above because it gets very complex quickly. For example, that extra 145 Blessing damage gets added to things like Sacrement, Last Rites, Enchant Fire, etc. Things like that do actually help to close the damage gap between INT and SPR Chaplains.
That extra 145 Blessing damage from a SPR build also gets split between a party better, which gives more places for it to be added on, which helps close that gap even further. However, I was only talking about the effects for the Chaplains themselves. The Magic Attack route is a lot more selfish than the SPR route since only the Chaplain benefits from it, that is very true.
Let’s also not forget the glory that is Stone Skin, which is only more epic with high SPR and with a Chaplain build, you have the ability to keep that up 24/7 when using Capella. That is one of the other great perks of going a SPR Chaplain. Like I’ve said from the beginning, there is room in the game for all sorts of Chaplain builds.
All of them are viable, they all play very similarly, and all of them can easily handle what end game at this point offers. It’s just that there is more than simply SPR Chaplain or GTFO. Specially for a person who has already devoted more of their stats to INT than SPR. Starting another Chaplain completely from scratch is a totally different matter, the best stats for that will depend on the goal of a player’s rank choices and the type of character they want to play.
The debuff portion reduces critical resistance by 80% of your spr and it can bring it to negative so whatever crit resistance down you give is essentially +crit rate to anyone hitting that enemy.
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Oooh, you’re right! I totally forgot about that! There was something there I was forgetting to account for, thank you for elaborating. A very good point!
Doesn’t it work like:
Aspergillum (lvl 15 Aspersion): (678 base damage + 366 SPR) = 1,044 + 477 Blessing = 1,521 damage
Aspergillum (lvl 15 Aspersion) w/ 100% Attribute: (678 base damage + 366 SPR) * 2 = 2088 + 477 Blessing = 2,565 damage
Where SPR is added directly to the base damage because they are parenthesis-ed; different to how EternalDream defined T1 modifiers referring to percentage modifiers?
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Considering it all, I’m gonna reroll and build a pure int chaplain/druid. With the new blessing buff considered, is there a new working build with this in mind? Because 15 blessing and 15 aspersion really takes up a lot skill points from my current build. I’d like to see a workable skill build for balancing dps with relative support to get me by on dungeon runs. Or am I just requesting the impossible?
From what I have seen of the damage in-game comparing it all and accounting for the individual factors, it doesn’t appear that the SPR does get doubled with the enhance attribute at 100%. It looks like just the base damage of the skill and Magic Attack are factored in. That may have been something that was changed at some point.
I’d love to see more people test it in-game to be sure, though! I tried it on my SPR Chaplain and my INT Chaplain by taking off all my gear and only casting Aspergillum and that seemed to be how things broke down.
-edit- strokes chin thoughtfully You know, the more I think about it, the more I think that unless they did change the way the formula works the current value of it not multiplying the SPR may be a bug. I’m going to investigate this further.
I’m also going to test it by just plain casting Aspersion (something I didn’t do before) and see if that makes any difference. It may be messed up somewhere in the Aspergillum’s code for the formula.
Its a bit annoying to test since you would need +SPR equipment or free points/stats reset.
Its possible you missed SPR’s inclusion in the Aspersio tooltip tho.
The damage as displayed by the tooltip already includes the bonus from SPR.
If nothing else, I’ve confirmed that Aspersion and Aspergillums damage is exactly the same. (with 98 SPR and 59% attribute)
Ta-da:
YES, Spr wins here; but int has its perks as well.
Int is obvi better for ~magical~ classes, if you ever pick one.
So if you pick Druid like that adorb girl over there, you get more from int, because it increases your matk and, well, you’ll deal more damage. I know, I know, there is spr in the build as well, so in the end we won’t destroy ■■■■; but hey Blessing kinda scales off of it, right?
So we have nice Spr for Blessing & Stone Skin and some int for style. They complement each other. Perfect.
At the end of the day… as a Chaplain,
go Spr if you want to “help your teammates from behind” and you better stay on that path forever because you don’t deal damage anyway so might as well be the king of no-damage.
Int is okay if you pick offensive classes at later ranks. Who would judge, right? I mean c’mon Priest 3 is only useful for Resu and Revive, and that’s coming from someone who mains a Priest 3 as well.
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In other words int is futureproof while going spr means you have to stick with stronger auto attacks in exchange for a less damage potential for future magic cleric classes.
Hi, I am currently a 1CON:2INT lvl200 Chaplain.
I would said a INT focused Chaplain not only viable, and it is with full potential build for future R7 & R8 cleric class.
Sometimes we need to think wider, after Chaplian, what is your next build. Most of the Chap players will go for Plague Doc, and some choosed Druid even a Kaballist. You will take note all these following are high Matk classes, (now R8 is out, Inqusitor 7 Taoist both of them seems added a lot of Matk skill) therefore a INT focused build Chap it just on a right path.
Nothing wrong on INT/SPR build. Both have their potential and things they are good with. It depends what kind of build you looking for?
For a better damage output, and better healing >>INT Build
For a better supporter, buffer >>SPR Build (SPR benefited Deprotected Zone, Stone Skin and Blessing as the new changes of update).
I was wondering if C2>P3>Chap>D2 would be viable after Rank 8 comes out.