Tree of Savior Forum

Shinobi "Kunai" Skill Rework

Suggestions Game
#1

As for we all know, the Kunai skill of Shinobi class is a Pierce Type attack which mostly acquires benefits from Hoplite C2 due to Finestra + Spear Lunge + Kunai combo. Also, the current Ninja Patch for Shinobi shows that Bunshins can copy more skills from Highlander, Peltasta, and Rodelero. This update shows Kunai would not get any benefit unless you go Hoplite or Corsair(Dust Devil afaik it grants additional damage on Pierce type attacks).

I would like to suggest to replace Kunai skill with “Shurikenjutsu”

Below is the description of the said skill.

After replacing Kunai with Shurkenjutsu, there will be additional attributes for Shinobi. “Throw Shuriken” and “Throw Kunai” which players can choose based on their class build. These attributes can be maxed out already @ Level 1. Also, a possibility of being a toggle attribute if players decided to take both. As for restriction, When Throw Kunai is turned on, Throw Shuriken will automatically get turned off and vice-versa.

Throw Kunai - An attribute for Shurikenjutsu skill where Shinobi throws kunai. Pierce type skill. (This is the current Kunai skill that we have. No further discussion for we know already what it does)

Throw Shuriken - An attribute for Shurikenjutsu skill where Shinobi throws 1 huge shuriken. Slash type skill with 4hits and small AOE. (Now this is where we have to discuss things.)

How will Throw Shuriken works?
When this attribute is on, Shinobi will throw a Shuriken instead of a Kunai when Shurikenjutsu is used.

How will it work when executed?
Currently, I have 2 ideas how it will work when executed;

1.) It will be like Kunai that once skill is pressed it will throw 1 huge Shuriken.
2.) It will be a targeting skill like Iron Hook of Corsair or Multishot of Archer.

How about the range limit?
The range limit will be the same as Iron Hook of Corsair or Multishot of Archer.

The damage will immediately apply when it hits a monster/player even it hasn’t completed the full range. Once the it hits a monster/player, the Shuriken will stay in place rotating until it completes the 4hit attack. If it does not hit any monster within the limit range, it will stay in place (max range achieved) rotating for 4secs (1hit = 1sec). Of course this can be copied by bunshins.

With the current Cleave debuff in kToS, Slash type build Shinobi will somehow be on par with Pierce type build Shinobi (or might not).

Well what do you guys think? Please provide some constructive criticism instead of destructive ones. The aim of this is to help those 1h Sword Slash Type Shinobi build due to the fact that Slash Type are left in the dark especially Rank 8 has been announced.

@lukiner666 this is the idea I am talking about.

Tagging Staffs and GMs. (I’ll be removing the tags if it is now allowed)
@STAFF_Max @STAFF_John @STAFF_Ethan @STAFF_Amy @STAFF_Ines @GM_Sebastian @GM_Francis

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[NINJA COMMUNITY] Shinobi Class build, etc. (Updated as of 05/16/2016)
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#2

Personally when I was thinking about Throw Shuriken spells then I was thinking about something similar to Kunai (fan type aoe with 5 projectiles).

Giant Shuriken somehow gives me vibes of Throw Huuma Shuriken from RO (god I loved throwing Ninja build) :> so I’m currious how it would work in ToS if it could be as equally strong as Kunai spell

  1. How big would be Shuriken AoE … and hitbox (so it won’t magically not hit enemies in point blank range… trolololol)? Kunai isn’t only huge nuke/burst spell when combined with hoplite spells but overall it’s quite wide AoE so it helps with farming/grinding

small size? like Scout Flare Shot? (plz no ;_:wink:
medium size? like Pyro Flame Ground?
big size? like Elementalist Frost Cloud?

  1. It would deal 4 hits no matter of monster size or it would work like Kunai? small-medium monster = 4 hits, large-extra large = 5 hits

  2. any idea for attributes for “Shurikenjutsu”? Standard 1% dmg per attribute or something even more like bleeding, utility, crowd control, etc

I’d vote for option 1.

No offense to fans of ToS targeting spells but it sucks super hard if you aren’t using mouse mode. If you are using keyboard mode then “skillshot” targeting is pain in the ass. Not only you become immobile during aiming but also you delay your burst (compared to Kunai that’s just fast click on button and enjoy burst).

I suggest smaller range so it could work like current Kunai spell that counts as melee spell (despite it have medium range). This way it would benefit from C2 Dragoon new debuff (enemies take 100% more damage to melee attacks)

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#3

Well, we really need something like this (not to mention that all the swordman tree is better called the spearman tree… xD). But I don’t think that an entire rework is needed, just an attribute which makes Kunai slash dmg.
PLEASE, do something, the swordsmen can’t even go with a sword, it’s stupid.

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#4

Rather than attributes why not turn shinobi into an item using class like priest or fletcher? So you place consumables like kunai, shuriken, rocks, explosives (pierce, slash, strike, no type) into a hidden weapon compartment box like wugus poison box where shurikenjutsu could either take items at random or take the first available slot ones.

I don’t get building only 1 of slash, strike or pierce skills because it leaves you doing less damage against one armour type and only benefits hitting one type of mob. There is a saying that goes " Jack of all trades, master of none"… this is only the first half mind you as it goes “Jack of all trades, master of none, though oftentimes better than master of one”.

#5

I think you forgot about existence of Spear Lunge that makes enemy weak to Pierce attack and Cleave that makes enemy weak to Slash attack (soon™)

#6

It doesn’t make them a different armour type is that’s what you mean. They multiply your damage (or add to the same multiplier as armour modifiers) either way spear lunge>pierce move will deal damage less than a slash move with the same skill attack and stats against a cloth armour opponent even without cleave debuff. High Kick, Lethargy with attribute ect. also say hi.

#7

I was checking Pelasta skills and I just saw something

Butterfly: deals Slash and Strike damage same time…

and from what I saw on that video it deals same damage on both hits…

so why just not make Kunai deal Slash + Pierce damage type?

both BarbShinobis and HopliteShinobis would be happy because of that

#8

Good catch there! Well still we have to wait for them to notice this.

#9

This is a joke right?

“IMC please rework a skill that does up to 800k damage” ? The fact that it’s pierce is irrelevant, it just makes it even stronger when it does happen to be a weakness.

No thanks. Please don’t break the best part of Shinobi. This skill doesn’t need greater synergies. The others might do, but as a preference I think a C2 or C3 would be better, current Shinobi isn’t badly designed, just buggy.

#10

You do know that Finestra + Spear Lunge + Kunai Combo somehow forces some players to go HOPLITE due to the fact that it will do more damage.

What we suggest is a creation of a New Skill with Pierce and/or Slash attributes so that new players who decides to go Shinobi on R7 wont be initially get forced to follow Spear Path.

Some people even suggest that:

With the new CLEAVE debuff coming, I believe that most of 1h Sword / Slash Type Shinobi do want to utilize this debuff just like Spear Type Shinobi utilizing their known combo.

#11

Well the base damage between Kunai x2 (all 10 kunai hitting) and Bash x3 + Double Slash x 3 isn’t that large. And if you go Kunai level 1, since those 4 levels only adds 1350 base damage if all 10 hit, Bash x3 + Double Slash x 3 does more damage if everything hits. So that could work with cleave right?

Also 2H sword shinobi counts as a slash type right?.. Cross Guard’s stagger does +100% (T3 Mod) to all pierce damage.

No love for strike type shinobi though :,D.