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[Shinobi Knight] Tanking the Shinobi way

This is a thread designed to provide information on all things Shinobi tanking related. There are good resources out there which every one should avail themselves of. @Stormwolf has provided a very good thread about shinobi. @Cathexis has provided, well a lot, really read his thread and enjoy his hard work and knowledge. This is a work in progress but it will help lay down some foundation to build up future Shinobi Knights.

Before we begin, if you are looking for a dps build, please understand this is not the goal of a Shinobi Knight. When Tanking the damage you do is to draw the emnity of your enemies. Those damage numbers will not be awfully high, but don’t worry sword has a built in attribute that multiplies the hate production of that damage.

What you need as a Shinobi Knight:

A plan. What is your Goal, PvE or PvP? Full tank or off?

Decision on Peltasta, if you will Full tank, then take it. This one circle provides the only active taunt and an evasion buff of 18% when you activate guardian via attribute.

Level appropriate gear and leveled attributes. Whether quested or market, get your proper tiers gear. Trying to tank in lower level gear is a mistake. Not only does this cut into the minimal dps you will do it provides durability headaches and defensive problems.

An understanding of skill synergy WITH Shinobi and value. One example is Thrust, clones can use it so it synergizes, but it does not add much value as a tanking tool as there are better options for your rotation and those points can go elsewhere, like more points into pain barrier/ gunho/ concentrate.

An understanding of other classes skills, most important being clerics, but also the mechanics of archers and wiz as well as other sword builds.

Positional Awareness. Movement is one of the key aspects of damage mitigation, however you must always keep your position relative to your party in mind. Turning a boss towards your healer as it executes a devastating frontal attack could be deadly.

Multiple weapons and a shield, Again gear is very important and having the right tool at the righf time separates mediocre from elite.

Comfort with weapon swap. Tanking is not standing and holding C. Tanking is one of the most active and dynamic roles in the game. Swap is going to be used and timed.

Pots, they can save you keep lower ones but some bigger ones in the event of emergency.

WHY SHINOBI? A KNIGHTS TALE.

Why pick what seems to be an oxymoron of bad mashup comedy?
Synergy of course. The archetyple stealth assasin is just the shallow top layer of the onion that is Shinobi, the Onion Knight that is. Alone Shinobi has some viable tanking abilities.

Moktun avoid and bind/damage aoe, kunai for an aoe range ability with overheat and short cd. Mijin and Katon for aoe and invis, one giving an active skill invis (Katon). All good dps skills in their own right, but the hidden layers reveal that they are even better for hate genration, or in the case of katon hate shedding when needed.

Bunshin and Mijin AOE damage and you:
These two skills allow for high con and dex builds to put out better damage numbers independant of str investment for mijin and considerably less dependant on str for Bunshin. That is not to say a 0 str build will be best but a full str build is not needed to put out respectable numbers for a tank.

The function is simple for Mijin, it does aoe damage and you take damage, so basically a Nuke class skill that uses HP instead of MP, the cost is high and at 6khp for a lvl 2 you will not be doing much with this skill, unless you have a Ton of HP… Well Shinobi Knight has tons of HP so using this to open or close should not be an issue, note that since your screen will warn you based off %of HP if your screen is flashing red and you have the health icon over your head it might be a bad idea to use, or a really great idea if you can end the fight with a sliver of HP left so basically make sure you watch your HP when you use it. With provoke this basically cements hate on its own useful to keep those Wiz and Archers who open with burst from stripping the mobs off you.

Now we Look at Bunshin. This has a dual function, DPS and Hate generation. This skill allows Shinobi Knight to step out of tank mode and dish out damage, if you care to you can carry equipment to augment your play role, a DPS set and a Tank set, costly but #endgamegoals. If for what ever reason you are called upon to lay down your shield and pick up your weapon then you will not be constanly hitting like a wet noodle.
You will have the stamina and HP to use bunshin and stay alive all the while dishing out damage, This can be in burst mode, more on this later, or consistently (DPS) via active dodging of damage via movement while keeping the full effect of bunshin to dps without worry that one shot will bury you 6 feet under. Even taking increased damage compared to no/lowcon DPS focused sword you will still have survivabilty because you will have almost double or more the HP they do.
Now for burst mode you can safe zone and not worry about it overly much. Burst mode works either to open, throughout the fight, or close, but is harder to during the fight because you need some setup and a bit of communication with healer. Like Mijin you Open with a full bunshin skill rotation of skills then utilize stamina depletion methods to get rid of your clones (such as sprint or Double Weapon Assault). You can even enter the fight with however much stamina you feel you will need to complete your burst rotation, take into account that bunshin depletes stamina slower than sprint.

There is also the PvP side of Shinobi, which I will leave to others to go in depth on, however I will mention that with the right build you will have a very useful PvP kit.

more ot come

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Builds Garage:

@coreyz_17 thanks for this build.

SW1>PEL1>HOP2>SQR2>Shinobi.
Sub build any squire focused build

If going Squire its likely that viability post squire has come up. Shinobi offers a nice out that places you in a pivotal role offering substantial benefit to your party. The above build offers a varied kit for yourself as well as your party. I will allow others to go in depth on squire but what I do know is the kit has an Aoe bind Arrest, works on bosses, and that applies def debuff and slow via attribute.

A Dex> Con or Con >Dex focus is likely your best bet. However via goplite and shinobi you get a substantial damage kit, which if nothing else will allow for improved solo play when not tanking in party or making silver via shop.

SW1> pel2 rod2 Fencer> Shinobi
Sub builds Pel1-3/Rod2-3 and any other mix
Rod 2 is needed or better not to go Rod.

This build focuses heavily on mitigation. Slithering, High Guard, Flacconade, Esquive Toucher. But it also offers synergy with kunai through Attaque Coquile. The build also lends itself to a Dex/ evasion build over a block/ con one since you have to commit more heavily to get the benefits from evasion.

A Dex> Con>Str or Dex> Str > Con distribution can work well. Slithering offers some magical protection and will allow for less HP/Con.

Sw1> Pel> Hop2> Cor2> Shinobi
Sub builds none

This build utilizes circle 2 in hop and cor as well as c1 from pel to provide a well rounded approach. Pel provides swashbuckling, guardian, and via attributes a hp buff and evasion buff, both very large and useful.
Hop2 provides the engine for your damage output, also it offers an interesting attribute via stabbing for a 25% bonus to evasion and magic defense during its duration.
Cor2 this provides hexendropper to your damage kit and DWA to your stamina management kit as well as damage. Jolly Roger Pirate Tank is always welcome in a party as leader, attack combo and silver pilage. Via attribute you get a backstab bonus in the event mobs turn from you and Unity. Unity offers a speculative 12.5% chance for nullification of damage that is a party buff too, which is not to be underestimated.

This Build can go heavy Con or dex, just understand your evasion gains may not pay off vs Hp and block gains should you go heavy dex and with finestra evasion is the main reason you pump dex.

I am personally trying Con > Str />Dex

More to come

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Tanking Tips and Hints

I think a long discussion about tanking in ToS is needed. ToS is not your regular facetank and spank game, like many other MMOs. Movement is a big part of tanking, especially against Magic. Learning Bosses and which part of dungeons certain types of mobs are. Learning how to gather and place mobs. Being able to keep mobs where they will be subject to debuffs or AOE. All these skills are integral to tanking, as much as builds or skills.

Magic The gathering

One of the biggest concerns for all tanks are Magic casters. These mobs will deal damage through all the nice block, evasion, and armor right to your HP. The only sword methods to “avoid” this damage is via Slithering, a Rod c2 ability or via rngesus methods like Immunity. Outside the Sword class SafetyZone springs to mind.

So how do you handle magic if you don’t have good mitigation against it? Simple, and effective, You kill them before they can kill you. There are many interchangeable methods to do this, but this is essentially the gist of it. even Slithering relies on your party bursting down said casters before the buff expires.

Key Tactics:

  1. Gather, range mobs require practice to manipulate but if you swash and dash you will get the hand of getting casters to Group.

  2. Crowd Control (CC) Though you might of thought those pidly skills with horrible damage were worthles, they are in fact valuable. CC is the bread and butter of controling magic damage. The more CC source you have the easier it will be to handle Magic. Even knockback forms of cc can be effective if you have the proper positioning/placement of mobs

  3. Stop it. Slithering, Safe Zone, even immunity of Jolly Roger, any method that can negate magic damage is something you should use if it is at your disposal.

Combining these tactics can lead to crushing Magic caster beneath your feet and laughing as your HP does not budge.

EQUIPMENT
A lot of this gear will overlap with DPS simply because of the itemization in the game.

Weapon/Shield
LvL120
Zega Spear (those with Hoplite) Get it + 7/8 as soon as possible, if you feel lucky plussing this spear higher will carry you well beyond 120.

LvL170
Brandish its brandish… its very good unless you have an enhanced equivalent from a lower level spear you want this.

Armor
LvL170
Entry level (Free) Tyla Armor the entire set is questable and will hold out till next tier if you are up for the repair bills.

Knights line of armor Can be purchased from the market place, an easy entry level set if you decide not to quest for the Tyla.

Roxonna
I don’t particularity love the set, if every piece gave con and hp then perhaps, but for the cost you are better off upgrading your weapon or getting a better hair accessory. IMO skip it and stick with Tyla or Knights.

Reserved 20charlimit45678

i want follow

I’ll be posting my opnion and experience I will be treading this path also

For reference, why is Shinobi part of your tank build? None of your posts discuss any Shinobi skills or attributes. Is it just for style?

Its still a work in progress at work right now so limited time and plenty of interruptions will be adding continuously. I will work on the details of Shinobi now thanks for pointing it out.

squire is not useful for tank. it only make it cheaper.

go rode c2 + pelt c2

Arrest is a Squire skill that can disable bosses.

I am not passing Judgement on the optimal nature of a build, and I said in the post above, which is still being edited, that Squire > Shinobi is a viable route especially for those wishing to continue with squire.

@dmhamilt
I already mentioned Arrest in the op.

I prefer:

SW1 > PEL1 > BARB1 > ROD2 > COR > Shinobi
or
SW1 > PEL1 > BARB2 > ROD2 > Shinobi

Care to elaborate so that I can examine your reasoning and add more information to the guide. Also current experience with the build etc.

@Darkji

Well I would not suggest Cor1 its not very valuable in that Doppel 1 would provide more in DPS terms or pel/rod in defensive terms. Going for Cor is to get Hexen and DWA in the second circle as I explained before.

as for barb 2 rod 2 I am not seeing the real gains in such a build. it seems to be trying to push for damage or maybe CC? you really would have to explain your reasoning and that would allow me a better understanding.

Just contributing to what @nazrious started. I am currently running the squire shinobi build.
Tanking wise I believe I’m doing especially well for the physical damage tanking department.
I do not use C button nor do I enjoy holding on to it because I fear I maybe overwhelmed by burst dps classes during the 20 seconds cooldown of swash buckling.
When I was running the Pelhoplilte squire build, I was tanking decently in terms of mitigating damage but I find my use of mainly only two skills (stabbing and Pierce) along with auto attacks to gain aggro is too little. Hence I went with Shinobi, which provides kunai a 15s overheat multi hitting skill which complements the Hoplite build as well. The spear lunge also doubles the damage output of all Pierce attacks including kunai’s.
With the added multi hit skill from shinobi, I have yet to find anyone other dps class including swordsman (as long as they turn off their provoke attribute) that can overtake the aggro from bosses. This is observed from my missions in siaulial.
I have also managed to tank through the siaulial without a cleric (because search party) and without hp pots. I will still have half hp left at the end. This also includes tanking the poata and mole together initially on the last room.
For now I am still finding solutions for the magic damage tanking department as I am still prone to magic. Reason being why I chose shinobi and squire is that they provide mokuton and arrest respectively. Both skills aims to bind/hold monsters in their place while your party plough through the monsters safely. It is my current work around to magic mobs for now.
Cast mokuton>Lure a bunch of magic mobs>all projectile towards me but only 1 hit to trigger the mokuton> mitigated rest of the magic hits when teleported/blink strike to the enemies, at the same time binding them. Mokuton has a pretty large AoE though I am still unsure how huge… And I can also follow up with arrest on the next batch of magic mo
Of course I still hope to improve the tanking on magic damage through discussions here.
Currently I will say I’m on a pve build with 100+ con and 200+ dex Stat build.

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@nazrious
Ok so at the beginning I’m sorry for my English.
I pvp player and it is defensive build Ninja+shield for pvp. I’m going to play a sword+shield, full cloth armor for magic ress.

Pros
R1: SW1: bash good cc, pain barrier, concentrate
R2: PELT1: + 25% hp, + 18% evasion, + 25% block, stun (UB chance 25%)
R3: BARB1: stun, +50 crit rate, good dmg // Hoplite will be also a good choice, but I do not like spear. Meybe sword c2.
R4: ROD1
R5: ROD2: here !, CC CC yeah, shield charge !, Montano stun + good dmg, target smash cc, slithering 10s magic immune + Increase strike attack to 100% if in hit ofc
R6: CROS: Iron hook! great cc, and can use combo burst from shinobi or rodelero skills, JR enemy debuff
R7: Shinobi: burst, stealth, FUN!
STR / CON / DEX 1/1/2: this is my way

Im thinking about rodelero c3 but crosair cc is great

Website was acting funky sorry for delay.

Thanks for the reply Dark, It helps me to better understand your reasoning. I don’t really PvP but it looks like an interesting build.

@coreyz_17

Thanks for the info mate, It nice to know you are able to forgo C and still make it through missions. How has your Dungeon experiences been?

Heres an image I been messing with does anyone have better editing skills and can work on it?

Uploading…

A very good post on tanking.

Been getting some kind of 504 error and have not been able to get on the forums let alone work on this thread.

Basic Idea if any one has the ability to improve/ rework on this I’d appreciate it. My skills are very lacking in this department.