You’re under the impression that not being 100% optimal is a negative experience. It’s not. Min-maxers do research, casual players don’t.
What builds are you talking about that lead to such a negative experience?
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Not having Pelt on Swordman.
You may not be popular in dungeons, but enjoy being more in demand in PvP. Now if you thought skipping an AoE aggro pulling skill was the best way to be in demand in PvE, then you should have thought about it a bit more.
I don’t think you understand what I meant so I’ll try to clarify. You stated in a previous comment about how people would just “copy endgame builds instead of trying to make what they have work,” if class reset was implemented. Disregarding the fact that people are already doing that. My point was I wouldn’t do that, because that’s a min/maxer mentality. But let’s assume people did do that. How would that affect your enjoyment of the game? Apologies if I’m sounding rude, but you are contradicting yourself. Also I’m a casual player and I did do my research. I just hate the fact that I have to to be viable. I’d rather play around with builds in the game and see what I find enjoyable. But this game discourage that type of gameplay
If you do a research, you’ll realize this is an unforgiving game.
Specially in the last ranks, which specialize in utilities most of the time.
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Think in a cleric that got pardoner on R5-R6-R7 and found out he can’t sell most of his skills. This also applies to players that did a moderate amount of research, because the game does an awful job explaining it.
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Think in a cleric that got oracle and found out it has not a single viable attack skill.
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Think in a R7 class that was greatly nerfed (after he spent lots of TP on perfect stats and a hundred million TP setting skills) and is forced to abandon all that and start from 0.
This game is very unpolished, developers didn’t thought in many aspects, this is why class resets are a big necessity.
Can’t simply tell players that spent good money to GTFO because you want to feel “pro”.
If you don’t want one then don’t get one, don’t bother the rest that do.
It doesn’t affect you, after all.
Other than being a hater there is no reason to campaign to deny something that help other players.
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I don’t really care about PvP. I’m more into PvE. I did think a lot about it, however I learned it during my playtime. No build I’ve read/researched told me so. I have even read the forums looking for some advice but all the data is scrambled and you don’t know what to believe. Specially because it was mixed with data from previous betas, and chances were that that info was outdated. (I didn’t play any of the OBs).
Some people are concerned about it and the overall performance of a swordman as a whole. It promotes the cookie cutter builds because how poor these skills are balanced. Besides the reset thing to temporary address certain issues, the job as whole needs a full revamp, imo.
I thought “Meh, I’ll do it fine”. But as I was progressing, I was more of a burden than a help, because our DPS sucks bad and I was not helping the groups at all.
I found myself re-rolling my character, losing everything because of this huge bag of BS. Needing a mandatory circle so I can play with other people is bad. Bad design is bad.
I wouldn’t call class resets a necessity for the game in the long run. I do agree in it’s current state a full class reset upon glaring issues getting fixed would be welcome. However, I don’t think glaring issues that need to be fixed anyways is reason enough to implement something as impactful as on demand resets.
Edit: I wish threads would get merged, feels like I am parroting my opinions to each thread as I lost track of which ones I commented in.
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My personal enjoyment should not be a point support your argument. If IMC sold EXP Cards how would that affect your enjoyment of the game? Do you see why this just doesn’t work?
Alternatively, the developers can re-balance and alter skills if it’s a big issue. Why is simply aborting the class the only option? Also please don’t use the Oracle argument. None of their skills are even listed as an attack. This is the equivalent of me taking Monk and being upset that they can’t heal. And you know what IMC does after a big balance patch? They often hand out skill and stat resets. I don’t understand the mentality that your build wasn’t 100% as you thought so it’s time to scrap it. That’s how a min-maxer plays. That’s how hardcore players play.
Now I’ve said before that I actually think you should circle resets. Yeah, that’s right. I do. But I don’t believe in just… changing circles. No, you have to put in some kind of effort, some sort of work. I’ve proposed dropping your class to rank 1 level 1 and giving you an exp bonus so you can level up faster but still have to level. I think circle resets are fine as long as it’s not a simple transfer.
And you can dumb down my side to being hater if you wish, but there is a lot of things that help players that aren’t a good idea. EXP Cards in the cash shop will help players who burned cards early and didn’t know when to use and save them. Should I support that because it would help another player? What about the player who wants to experience endgame but has so little time to play? Should I support a max level TP item? This is obviously a slippery slope but I don’t think that an item designed to help players is enough of a reason to support its existence.
@cyruswallace Sorry but you, as a PvE player, didn’t think that AoE aggro generation was a good idea? There were no posts predating the early release that revealed this information? I am beyond skeptical.
But. It’s. Different. One would be P2W and the other isn’t.
Looks like you are, however you’re making assumptions instead of questions. Asumming I could enjoy PvP, assuming I would play a tank because I like PvE. AoE aggro generation is a function related to tanks, not DPS. I wanted to play a DPS class but our damage doesn’t scale well compared to other classes. So, in order to find a spot in parties and be somewhat useful, I had to put that one single alone stupid peltasta circle.
If we had a good base DPS, we would be appreciated that way.
BUT I GUESS I can just buy lots of silver, buy tokens with TP and sell them, then with the new token system just spam attributes because that’s not broken at all. The reset of one single circle seems to be super crazy compared to it.
People this is 2016, we cannot have hardcore games like Baldur’s Gate anymore, even games like Pillars of Eternity and Divinity Original Sins have to be tweaked to fit the more casual players - why do you think there’s so many mobile games nowadays? Why do you think Konami (#f**kkonami) decided to quit developing games?
I say “yes to job resets” but only limit it when you reach a certain rank or when IMC decides to nerf a class to oblivion.
Thank you.
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Why do you care what other people do to have fun? It doesn’t affect you, right? Why is that a problem for you? Why should you care if someone pays to win? Doesn’t impact your experience, right?
@cyruswallace Well your issue is with the swordsman class as a whole. Do you know why people usually don’t want DPS swordsmen? Because of the reasons you said. That’s why they prefer tanky types. Does that mean you have to be one? Nope. You can make your own party if that is the case. That’s a balance issue, not a circle reset issue. Unless you’re hopping onto the build which is most popular this month.
Also why bring up tokens? Your argument is literally, “We have this broken thing I am not okay with, so why can we have this?” and that’s bad.
You’re right. I really don’t care because it doesn’t affect me at all. I’m just pointing out that your argument is flawed.
The fact that you don’t care is actually a massive problem. You’re every MMO developer’s dream. Complacent about P2W. You’d be perfect if you were also a whale.
So now you’re trying to mix opinions and facts? Your strawman argument is astounding.
You yourself said you don’t care. That’s a fact, as stated by you. And this is off topic to begin with.
It is. let’s just agree to disagree.
"[quote=“Rubiss, post:208, topic:232830”]
Well your issue is with the swordsman class as a whole. Do you know why people usually don’t want DPS swordsmen? Because of the reasons you said.
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It’s currently an issue but devs didn’t give us a word about it. There’re plenty of complaints about swordmen not being on par with actual DPS with very nice arguments. That’s truly a balance issue.
Now, even if my story sounds somewhat offtopic, you asked for a build that led to a bad experience. That’s mine, giving you the reasons why it was bad. Sharing a whole thread of people like me who "suffered"the same thing.
Also, you are AGAIN assuming I’m talking about a complete full reset? Stop assuming, seriously. A limited reset would enable me to replace one single circle without affecting my build that much. How is, ONCE CIRCLE, going to let me hop into the month’s hot class? Care to explain?
Explain why is bad. Don’t label an argument just like that without offering an explanation. I can’t read minds, I tried it. Being able to improve the attributes without limit but my wallet, also allowing me to buy reset pots, should be in the same bag than the “LIMITED CIRCLE RESET FEATURE”. I see no people quitting because of that. I barely see people complaining about it or spamming threads demanding IMC to do something about it.
I know you are a loyal supporter of the idea that IMC listen to the playerbase. Most QoL elements they included in the latest patch comes from our feedback. They are becoming more flexible compared to the original proposed model. I can’t see why we couldn’t have a LIMITED CIRCLE RESET FEATURE. LIMITED. Not one that allows you to switch a full builds in matter of seconds.
I actually am for limited circle resets. Yeah, you heard right. I am completely, 100% against full resets that let you simply repick your circles. For me, if you want to reset a circle, you should be able to but you should have to level that same circle up.
So for your example, if you want to be a Peltasta? Go back to Rank 2 level 1 and grind up back to Rank 3. That’s acceptable to me.
As for why you’re token argument is bad I’ll explain. You are very biased towards token as you’ve called them broken. You seem to think that because we have something you deem broken in the cash shop then that makes anything not broken a valid entry into the cash shop. So by acting like circle resets aren’t as bad as tokens, for you, that is a supporting argument. That is a bad way to think. Rather than add x and y item to the cash shop because z is broken, you should make z more fair so that x and y can make more sense.
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Then why are we arguing about resets if we both want the same thing? Unless you assumed I was talking about full resets. From the very first second I was against them. It would let you make small tweaks on your classes or fix small mistakes.
It’s not the token itself but the possibility of selling it for silver what it bothers me the most. It will get only worse when this game goes F2P. Silver is a key element in progression, not because of the attributes but gear upgrades, recipes and materials. It trivializes the “farming” aspect of the game. The whole market is ruled by silver.
We also have certain reset freedom with the cash shop’s pot.
The latest update improved the token even more, giving silver even further relevancy and power, enabling you to max your attributes in no time. How do you get lots of silver without moving a finger (in-game. Money still costs IRL time)? Either RMT (buying doesn’t seem to be punisheable) or selling these tokens as well.
Since English is not my native language I think I f***d up my argument. I hope you get my idea.