Tree of Savior Forum

[Request] Remove Headgear enchant scrolls from cash shop, and +stats from premium mounts

Life SPOILER: Everything in this world is P2W, they are a company, they don’t survive with our likes and affection.

As long as headgear enhancing is as far as P2W equipment goes I agree with it, it only costs 8 TP and is totally random, also you can buy enchanted gears from any player.

Seriously? Token is P2W? So you want to take Token and enchants away, you think people will pay enough to keep a company running a game with only costumes? They already made a system that is pretty much fair to all players, if you want a Token you can simply farm Silver for it.

People who think nothing should be payed would not be happy with ingame advertising and things like that, stop being such cry babies, money is something anyone can work for and doesn’t even make as much difference in this game as it makes in real life…

Well how do you expect them to make money? The game is offered FREE and if you choose to pay anyone with a brain would want some sort of benefit of it. I think its great idea.

Trust me, the moment IMC change TP items to be tradable. Once again, we gonna have threads saying “P2W, buying with $ to earn silver!” or “Reduce TP cost, buying Silver from RMT is cheaper!!” kind of stupid threads. That is why I said if IMC listens to all these BS “suggestions” they might as well close the servers and save their bills.

Welcome to NA servers, where toxicity is the new measurement.

True, but it’s better in the long run. They either have to make enchant scrolls much more accessible or remove them.

But the test you used wasn’t whether the p2w item differences is significant enough. The test you used was whether it affected your ability to play. My objection was to the use of the second test. You should seek to be consistent in the exact criteria you’re using to differentiate acceptable and unacceptable items. Yes, the first test is related to the second test in that items that are insignificant would not affect the ability to play, but certain items that are significant would also not affect the ability to play.

Therefore you have to be clear and exact that they are not quite the same, and be actually wary that you prefer to use the first test which we agree is a sensible test and not the second.

I agree that how big the difference is would be an important factor for consideration. I accept your argument that little bonuses could be an attractive marketing practice that yields more benefits than complete blanket fairness.

However, with that in mind, I still urge you to accept these arguments: (1) that we should be cautious as small changes can set a bad precedent (2) that people may disagree on what is a small/big change, and this could be problematic in future if it happens. I think most people here are okay with 30 def which is relatively uncontroversial, but what happens when it’s something else that is controversial?

There will be a giant debate about whether it impacts end game, whether classes need it or don’t need it etc etc, and in the end it is better to avoid the whole problem altogether by demarcating clear boundaries as to what is to be avoided right from the beginning so there is no trouble.

Lastly, these are unrelated to our main argument but I do object to (1) the use of communism as a hyperbole; (2) the use of slippery slopes like cash costumes, which are, btw, obtainable in game in kTOS fyi. I just saw the reply and yes, costumes are in the category of clear non-p2w. The mounts are -perceivably- p2w as they confer stats, so you shouldn’t treat them as the same.

my “request”: don’t remove any of it.
seriously. stop that p2w-whining (or concentrate it to a single area on the forums, so everybody else can ignore that stuff).

in another thread, somebody went throught the troubles to calculate the cost (based on rolls/probabilities of enchants) for your perfect headgears. i doubt anybody would invest that kind of money into the game.
if you get lucky, sure, but why not?
some people play lottery. let them. or is that also pay2win? -.-

you don’t need that stuff. if you want it, you can buy it. that’s all.

I don’t see why you need to seperate those 2, I was mentioning them both as a whole to begin with.

They chose to put 30 def/mdef knowing this kind of situation will happen. Why else would they put def instead of the highly demanded attack instead.
IMC had been very careful with their changes, like the trade restrictions because they are listening. But people are taking advantage of that fact and starting to push stupid ideas towards them. Like that TP for reroll BS. That’s not how ToS is being designed.

in future.
if it happens.

To whiners, yes. Since you are technically paying and the moment you win, you win big. They dislike the fact that you have the advantage/ money to gamble in the first place. So according to them remove lottery or whatever they can’t/unwilling to get fixes it.

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Yes I like this. But we can’t always rely on the goodwill on IMC to make good decisions all the time. They have made bad decisions in the past. It is better, I think, to err on the side of caution and not even have this 30 def in the first place.

I think it serves a useful signalling effect and commitment by the company that they won’t put stats on cash items, period, which earns the trust of the playerbase.

I think the trust of the playerbase is a far, far more valuable asset for the longevity of the game rather than short term marketing boosts. Do you think so? I think it will help them make more money in the long run by establishing customer loyalty, which is especially important in this sea of MMO choices to differentiate themselves from other companies.

You know what I call such threads and topics? Neverending story.[quote=“roflmaopapa, post:55, topic:219965”]
And why we can never have nice things. Because they are all REMOVED and NORMALISED.
[/quote]

I’ve already stated my views. I rest my case.

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If you’re tired of discussion then it’s okay to just drop the topic by not responding (I’m saying this in a matter-of-fact way, not in a you-should-get-out way).

There’s a lot of problems with this view, but I think I’ll just drop it for now.

So even Normalising items by removing stats is an issue, you are really hard to please ain’t you? Isn’t that what you wanted to begin with. Archeage already did that exact ■■■■, took off part of the fun in buying cosmetics for different builds, in a build-diversity heavy game.

scrolls are in no way pay to win to get the good stats you need to be extremely lucky i have used a fair amount of the scrolls and haven’t gained that much advantage compared to not using them +sp and some element defense is hardly going to make me win anything. and the pet mounts stat increase is hardly noticable you take like 10-20 less damage o my god thats so broken i must complain. please STOP these things are not pay to win nothing in the game is pay to win you just cant be bothered to put in the effort on your character clearly. do us all a favour and stop playing mmo’s all together if you consider things like this pay to win.

Hey, you got +50 sp, that’s more than me. It’s uNfAiR!
Runs off before I get further intoxicated by this thread

And what about AoE Attack and Defense ratios? Being able to protect up to three people as a tank by standing next to them is fair, right?

And again, if it’s not noticeable then why have them?

It’s great to have diversity especially in a game like TOS. But why must it be through the cash shop?

Why couldn’t the scrolls have been merely from in-game in the first place? Then you can still have your diversity where everyone is unique, without this whole problem.

I think it’s kinda late at your place so I would refrain from going too in-depth about what is wrong with the ‘normalisation’ argument, but the main points would be that

(1) differentiation is fine, but cash shop shouldn’t be the basis of differentiation
(2) normalisation isn’t always bad. sometimes diversity makes sense and sometimes it doesn’t
(3) also it’s a bit too early to conclude that it is already a ‘nice thing’. you’re jumping hoops here - you first have to evaluate whether it is something meritorious in the first place. You’re already making the assumption that it is a nice thing, it is good to have, therefore we shouldn’t remove it. That’s jumping to conclusions.

Laters brah

dont cry but it was 124 sp actually xD

I really shouldn’t reply but seriously…[quote=“elysium, post:76, topic:219965”]
Why couldn’t the scrolls have been merely from in-game in the first place?
[/quote]

You just don’t want to spend time farming on your character, that’s why you’re upset. All these items can be found at market. For silver. Which is not real money. So no, not pay to win.

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Well… no. For one I have to have someone already enchant a headgear that I want or I have to buy a scroll myself. You can’t buy enchant scrolls on the market. You buy headgears which have been enchanted.