What makes peole mad about missile hole is because you need to kill people from 5 to 10 times or more to be able to break missile hole. Most people can just face tank you while it also prevents some effects from Missile attacks/skills.
The uptime is too good and can be renewed even if you aren’t a chrono and it can’t be removed by Gohei or any other Lv.1 buff removal.
It is kind of worse than Ausrine for most situations on archer’s point of view. (Ausrine = 22s, limited buff and can be removed)
Revenge can be dealt by party as whole at the moment.
Again on archer’s point of view, Missile Hole is the most unbalanced. It’s the difference between getting 700k damage and 10+ kills in a match against a team with Ausrine and doing 24 damage total, 0 kills on a team with Missile Hole and no Ausrine.
I’d gladly give up Revenge7 if they made Merkabah more viable as a good damage skill in Rank 8 content. Right now it’s rather underwhelming, both because it doesn’t deal alot of dmg on its own, but also because it’s capped at level 5.
You’re wrong there, recasting Missile Hole won’t refresh hits but skill will go on CD, so let’s say you still have 37 secs remaining but got hit by an archer plety of times, you want to recast it to refresh the shield, okey time will go again to 1 minute, skill go on CD, but hit count will remain the same.
Basically you need to wait the whole minute to recast it or wait until someone hits you enough.
Nope.
And again, by R7X and archer can get auto oneshotted, and ausrine will result the same.
From my point of view then, r7x is shared by everything in the map (zombies pets caltrops and so on), I good balance change would be only to be cast on players.
Missile hole at is it right now is good, refreshing hit count everytime that you recast the skill will make it broken.
Ausrine is the ultimate broken buff.
Agree to a certain point but Ausrine is limited to 20 ish seconds.
To the point enemy team get into fight, 15s or less. If you take your time a bit and wait your chance, 5s or less, you can wait the 5s over and attack -> kill enemy target only once.
With missile hole: 1 minute duration, can’t wait over, must break 16 hits barrier. (More below on Missile Hole renewing /)
Not wrong, just didn’t say everything, sorry. I know about the hit count, but:
People can renew Missile Hole as soon the hit count is broken. (Hard to counter if they’re in a group, only viable to cancel the cast if the opponent is the caster in a safe single target scenario.)
Hard to keep track hit count on 5+ people at once. (Plus harder if they lost buff by overbuffing/breaking Missile Hole hit count + renewing).
You can’t wait it to go off, it will just be renewed on low duration, even more probably if the caster keeps track of hit count.
In a sense Ausrine is a limited buff (require statues, walking to rebuff) it is because you can wait Ausrine to go off that Missile Hole is worse. Over 1 minute is just too long for any damage immunity IMHO.
Sorry, I didn’t mean about R7X. But yeah, any archer can get oneshotted if you don’t switch to weaker crossbow for auto attacks or let party deal with them first before you use skills.
R7X can be countered, same applies for Ausrine. Both are easily removable in any fight. You can counter R7X by having Ausrine, Counterspell or Safety Zone by yourself. You can counter Ausrine with buff removal, CC (wait duration).
Missile Hole can’t be countered. Fights most likely won’t remove Missile Hole from all 5 party members, Missile Hole can’t be removed with Lv.1 Buff Removal.
Missile Hole works basically as a 1 minute duration Ausrine against Archers that can be casted (and renewed) without any side effect on a team.
Even if the enemy gets low duration CC such as Freeze and others, Ausrine will tick down to unsafe durations while Missile Hole will keep protecting the character and most likely you won’t reach the hit cap safely during a fight.
One detail is that R7X is limited to 5 targets so if it is ever applying to Caltrops and pets it is letting one character unprotected. I agree on it being only to players which also fixes the scenario where it applies to statues/pets and ignore players who needed it.
From my point of view Ausrine is pretty easy to deal with as long you have counters in your team. If you don’t your team is dead anyway (bad match making).
While there is no viable counter to Missile Hole, independent on what match making does to you, you’ll still need to “kill” that Cata rushing around 8 to 12 times after all buffs are dispelled by the Miko in your team to finally kill a single person.
40 secs if you rebuff taking ausrine (because it is possible and the way to do of lot of people), 40 secs of total immunity is broken as ■■■■, even if you don’t like it.
Archers won’t be auto attacking when their skills aren’t in cooldowns lol, that’s a fact, and classes like SR can take down MH in a blink of an eye.
I won’t make the whole quote because all your points basicallly sums up in the same answer, missile hole isn’t like bless, it’s cast radius is pretty small, you can’t just cast it being far away of your allies, they won’t get it. Basically if you want MH again you should walk nearby your sage and of course, sage isn’t there to count how many people have their buff down.
You’re like really wrong here, even a full kino CC (raise + MF) is still letting the whole enemy team with 4-5 ausrine seconds, that of course if they don’t rebuff again, and taking into account that kino will manage to CC everyone (which is literally impossible since MF has 5 AoE and pets are counted).
As said, rebuffing with ausrine still let the enemy team with 20 secs of MH left, and to be honest I’m pretty sure that any of them will have it down or will be death since tbh tbl is based on clerics, catagoons, lancers and kinos.
Remember that the same theory of CC with ausrine is applied to MH, it doesn’t give you CC immunity either, and even a QS can CC you til’ the end.
A cata 3 rushing while troting in ausrine mode is way more than dangerous than a whole team with MH.
You say that Ausrine can be dispelled by a Miko, same goes for Ausrine lol, with the difference that probably a Miko won’t just walk straight to the face of an enemy to dispell Ausrine, on the other hand an enemy without Ausrine but having missile hole isn’t that dangerous and pretty doable.
And just to add, even having missile hole, pears which is considered a physical ranged attack deals tons of damage to a mage, so when pears are in combat which is the role of a wiz? Walking waiting til those birdies disappear? Cooldown is really low as well, and the main difference between MH and pears is that the second one one shots.
Basically you keep crying about a buff which deny any archer to one shot from cloaking (another stupid skill since a decent player won’t get uncloak easily and the other way is having an elementalist with rain) but you don’t take a look on other skills which are by far more overpowered than missile hole. Even a dragoon 2 can deal with a whole team with MH.
And yep, you don’t consider that MH is a rank 8 skill while Ausrine is a rank 5, a rank 5 skill can deal with everything while a rank 8 can deal with only some kind of archers, come on, sage can make portals, duplicate fireballs and missile hole, now compare with any other rank 8 class (got to admit that archer is the weakest this time tho, swordsman was before now is the turn of archer and let’s see which is the one affected in rank 9).
So you are that kind of archer who keeps in cloaking 24/7 until buff is going to vanish to make an attempt of one shoting, then fetting cloak again 24/7. Repeat until win.
And yea, I do have a QS3 Falconer to PvP with if that answers you.
Take hunter, rogue falconer or in some cases even a single QS can kill pretty easy people with MH.
If you aren’t able to kill people with missile hole well, you asked me if I have an archer and I ask you if you have hands lmao
Answering this?:
Is pretty sad that people is so mad because it was really easy to be in stealth and one shot one by one, now that they have to think a little bit and makes it harder everyone cries a river lol
But to be honest, by the level of the people in this forum I’m not surprised.
Btw are you my stalker? Did you read my whole history? Every time you reply me is based on a previous post lol
But friendo he is right missile (ass)hole is much worse to deal with as an archer than ausrine.
And if you meant to say that ausrine can’t be dispelled you are wrong, it can.
Even with QS3, without block pen you will need to hit 20 - 25 times a single target to remove MH because againt full CON running shot is usless.
And if you are full STR, how do you deal againt Archer and Sword full dex ?
The time you get to remove MH, you’ll get one shot / cc. And even if you get 1, still 4 are waiting behind.
It’s to hard to deal with this one. And it’s only for archer, the problem is here.
ps: I get why you defend MH that hard, it’s because you are Sage yourself. Hahaha
Dafuq which is the difference? Both nullifies damage and can get CC. And nope, I meant to say that both of them can be dispelled yet try to dispelled any swordy with Ausrine and try to dispell the same person with missile hole. Good luck going directly to an invincible man’s face lmao
It isn’t like Falco doesn’t provide Cc, of course I’m full dex with crit attack. I don’t have it as easy as being cloaked until I find an isolated one to bullet shot and kill him, + Falconer increase the distance to hit the enemy + running shot and bullet or even full draw (IIRC, don’t know if that’s the name right now) is enough to keep your distance with the enemy until MH is done. If you can’t think about something like this gg in your pvp’s mate.
By the way, is 16 hits and that taking into account that you are the only one hitting.
You play an archer and don’t know how to place yourself correctly? Only running shot makes it kinda easy, not going to mention again cloak or circling lol
Oh and that edit with PS. Just to say that even if I’m a sage this game allows to reroll other characters, so yea, I’m one of those that found diev 3 Oracle kabba inqui as a lamer and OP build and did one. I have some clerics myself and I’m not defending them, but that kind of accusations with unstable base just lmao man, I get why you can’t deal with MH.
That’s how it feels for archers, more than 1 minute of total immunity to all of your skills. >.<
Nope. I’m a SR myself, you can only take down MH this easy if match making already gave you the win at start (and not even always). And even if you use AoE skills you can encounter the R7X on pets (which is another separate problem).
MF AoE restriction doesn’t apply well on PvP unless you’re using MF on something such as on top of 15 caltrops because of random targets. Any good kino do work with it. lol And it’s pretty true, anything can lower Ausrine duration. That’s why it’s less broken than Missile Hole (archer-wise).
Being honest, sorry, I didn’t really get the other points in the next 2 paragraphs but QS can’t CC someone so freely till the end because we’re talking about teams, while you’re hitting 1 1 1 1 with Stone Shot someone will simply kill you.
I agree. Cata is too strong (kinda unbalanced IMHO), let’s say he have Ausrine and rushes, someone CC and Miko removes Ausrine, Archers can 1-shot the cata. Let’s say the Cata have Missile Hole, someone CC, Miko removes Ausrine, you still can’t kill the Cata. If you ignore him he will probably use Dethrone on your team, if you focus on killing him only the enemy team can go towards you which is also hard to deal with.
Actually I tested it more than 5 times, Gohei does not removes Missile Hole. But it all depends on your comp. If you have archer dps it’s simply the same as 1 minute Ausrine that can’t be dispelled.
Pears is considered physical melee attack (Levitation from FF 2 can make it Miss). On the same note pears are trap-like stationary and can be dealt with, you can have safety zone, you can block Pears, you can walk on Pears to make them attack you for less damage as well they can be destroyed by 2 or 3 attacks from any other person on your team. The real difference is that Pears are easy to counter with any team composition unless 5 Full Int wizards while Missile Hole have no counters at all (archer-wise) nor team can help.
I don’t like 1-shot from Cloaking too, but it’s not that bad. I keep crying about a buff that completely negates all archers skills from any circle. I agree that we need something as Missile Hole but it needs to be adjusted for lower hit count, damage threshold, less duration and/or not being able to be renewed.
I agree, some skills are way overpowered as offensive skills but as defensive skill, Missile Hole wins by far compared to any other (archer-wise).
I don’t want my SR being able to run and kill everyone in a blink of an eye with Marching Fire/Retreat Shot, but it is totally broken to hit 1 for 16 hits and for 1 minute.
While on the same reason I don’t think it is balanced to have Dragoon C2 kill everyone with Dethrone. It is not a disable-entire-class skill.
I do consider that Missile Hole is a rank 8 skill that requires only one circle for entire 1 minute of complete immunity against archers while Ausrine requires entire 3 circles of a class. And that makes it even more broken. lol
The thing is that it doesn’t only affect Scouts, it affects everything else. Missile Hole even prevents knockback from Heavy Shot which is supposed to be a spam skill and nowhere near 1-shot skill from cloak. It’s a simply deleted skill if enemy have the buff.
On another point of view:
Hunter: Not missile.
Rogue: Backstab?
Falconer: CC/Falcon damage?
QS: Stone Shot vs Prophecy?
How are the teams you play in TBL usually?
Differences:
Can’t be removed by Lv1. buff removal (such as Gohei). It really can’t. lol
Duration way longer.
Can be renewed anytime.
No downside such as carving statue and needing to walk around it.
No target limit (Ausrine have charges).
How’s your physical attack? QS then what is the rest of the build? Running Shot with Full Dex on non-high-transcendence should hit from 1 to 500 max on PvP geared players.
Full Draw debuff doesn’t apply when enemy have Missile Hole and sometimes the knockback doesn’t work as well (random).
Because that’s usually how it is. lol
Let’s take this as general. The fact that people are able to deal with Missile Hole doesn’t excludes the fact that Missile Hole is unbalanced.
But you’re right, it’s impossible to argue with a Sage that the only skill he relies on his class is unbalanced and broken, lol.
Backstab is not missile. Rogue being able to do melee attacks doesn’t make Missile Hole balanced. Maybe you might as well talk about Hackapell instead as Missile Hole counter? lol
I think for Revenged the most simple solution would be to reduce its damage.
But there are lot of solutions…I just hope imc will finally choose one and won’t be afraid to make drastic changes if needed…
No…not like that imo. It should be more specific. All these immunity skills should be categorized…if they are not…as magic shields… and we need something against that. If suddenly there would be dispell that removes all kinds of buffs for every class… that would be quite unfair against those who are heavily relying on those.
Huh at this point that’s too much to read now, if I remember or someone tags me (hope that if someone does at least isn’t a short one) I’ll answer.
I just saw something like MH negates the whole archer class and other classes are op. I’ll link hunter and rogue skills, Falconer attributes and something about wugu maybe.
Or maybe you already know all of that stuff, but then I don’t see the point of negating the whole class. Nevermind I’ll take a closer look tomorrow lol.
TL;DR: You’re a sage and think that melee and DoT attacks from archers makes Missile Hole balanced and that it can be removed from dispelling skills while it can’t. But the entire point of Archer class is Missile skills, not DoT, not Melee, even tho some circles add these options.
Yeah, I know lot of stuff on archer related since I mainly play Archers since iCBT2 and played PvP since then. Missile Hole is by far the most unbalanced defense skill that ever existed till now in archer’s point of view.
And this kinda shows that your examples on QS and other archer options aren’t really well written compared to how it is on more populated servers with lot of people geared for PvP.
