Tree of Savior Forum

Re:Build - The Introduction

It’s not that simple. Simple minded people like you should stay far away from situations like this when you think so small.

yes it is. Overly complicated things that will kill the player base is dumb.

This won’t kill the playerbase at all. We all thought the silver exploit was going to kill the playerbase. It’s still the same. You seem extreme in your views.

Well, they straight up can’t fix PVP, because of the current class system and balancing things around the chance that someone dips into one circle, among many other things. Additionally, why fix PVP, revamp the class system, only to fix PVP all over again because of the changes?

Fair

Well does every class need to be mounted?

One.

wat

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I’m kinda scared on this announcement, since I have already used being IMC’ed on their update.
This announcement its a cliffhanger can we get us a hint so I can prepare :tired:

  • What will happen to my build are they going to be nerf/overpower…umm…balance?
  • Are we going back to zero?(all those items I have farm since day 1 will be wasted since it will not be compatible to my characters)

People should stop putting 1-2-3 in the end of the class, remember there is no circles anymore.

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@STAFF_Bob give us a hint! Tell us which of the existing class tree will be the most affected with the new distribution?

PLEASE

:satisfaction:

Build up our hype even more :heart:

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How do they get 560 build options,though?

If the first option is fixed as Swordsman we have 3 free Class choices left.

If we count all Classes in the Swordsman tree, we get 2 per Rank between R2 and R7 = 12 Classes + 2 hidden Classes + 4 Classes at Rank 8.

This means at first choice we can choose between 18 Classes, at second choice between 17 Classes and at last choice between 16 choices.
This means the maximum number of builds is 18x17x16 = 4896 possible builds.

If the hidden Classes don’t count towards the system, it would be 16x15x14 = 3360 possible builds

This still contains the same builds in different Class order, so we have to divide by 3 and by 2 (or by six since we’re clever) since one of them can be in 3 different positions, one in two different positions, and the last one is always at the same position (so no variation possible here, you divide by 3, by 2 and by 1, so 3x2x1= 6).

Now what’s interesting here is that if we divide both options by six, we get 816 if the hidden Classes count towards the total number of possible builds(18 Classes counting towards the number of builds) and 560 if they do not (so only 16 Classes open for builds).

That implicates that somehow hidden Classes do not seem to count towards the total amount of build options.
This also means that the base Class is always fixed as Archer/Swordsman/Cleric/Wizard.

How exactly hidden Classes are integrated into the system (maybe as sub-Classes or just as additional skills&costume via quest) is still not clear, but it surely seems obvious that unless there is a calculation error presented in the developers blog entry, they will not count towards the Class choice roster.

The only other option would be removing 2 Classes from Swordsman[candidates are Barbarian, Shinobi and Corsair] to the new Class tree (or more but adding more Class options to Swordsman) and counting the hidden towards the number.

This,however, begs another question: How do they plan to rearrange Classes fairly if every tree is supposed to have 16 options in total?

Archer would probably lose Scout and Rogue, but what about Cleric and Wizard? Are Classes going to be deleted? Or are the trees exempt from receiving new Classes for a while?

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If we consider some combinations don’t stack up (as rapier + spear) that well it isn’t as weird to have only 560 combinations, on raw numbers we can reach that value by having 10 (minimal 9 as 9x8x7 = 504) advanced classes knowing some won’t synergize as well. Assuming hidden classes require one of a set of specific classes (ex: Murmillo changed to hidden and requires either Peltasta or Rodelero to be unlocked in 1x2x7 = 14 available paths) we’ll get a major funnel in combinations.

It wouldn’t suprise me if they retire some classes (Sadhu, Oracle and Linker) for a while and reimplement once they’re figure out what they want to do with them. Regardless they said we’ll have new class tree and new classes, which is likely to have most of the newer ones into this said tree and a couple here and there for the trees that had classes taken away.

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It is quite likely that classes from the swordman tree will be moved. Mostly the idea of outlaw/thief and a tank based tree came up and both would mean changes to swordman tree most likely…

Also it is okay imo if the amount of classes on trees don’t match… just hopefully they will be close at least… like if the outlaw is the new class… hopefully it won’t be just corsair, scout, rogue…and let’s say shinobi… that sounds sad even for a start…
I wouldn’t be surprised if Nak Muay and the unreleased Luchador would go on that tree too btw… I think maybe daggers for them still would make more sense than sword etc.

Also what if centurion returns at last? haha… I think we still don’t have content for it but whatever… XD

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NUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!!

remove such evil thought from your head :heeey:

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Well, just four classes means that two of my three mains will be gone, including my favourite. As such, I have now quit. That’s life. I absolutely don’t understand this decision - I have 16 characters and 14 of them have 5+ classes in them. It really hurts that a game I invested so much time and money in just completely destroys its core system that attracted me in the first place just like that. Oh well, teaches me what company to avoid when it comes to picking games from now on.

If that happens we’ll see them again, probably…

@Sheba

I personally thing the current system is more interesting (as a game design nerd) but as they said rainbow builds don’t really make the cut, with the new system we’ll be paired to rank 12 and have a more consistent balance between classes.

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you are overreacting to the unknown…

is ok to be afraid, but wait for the confirmation before making a move…

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My beloved Necro is Wiz1-Cryo1-Linker2-Sorc3-Necro3. Every other build didn’t sit well with me.
My first character I made is Cleric2-Krivis3-Miko-Kabba1-Taoist3.
My beloved Exo is Cleric1-Priest3-Chaplain-Druid2-Exo2-Kabba1.
…the list goes on. And without my Necro - and I mean exactly this build, I tested a LOT during the rank reset event - I am not playing anymore. This is not overreacting or anything. The fact that only four classes total will be there is a fact. I don’t give a CRAP about meta, I give a crap about what I enjoy. And if I don’t enjoy something, I don’t play it. As easy as that.

I don’t care about META either, heck two of my favorite chars defies it (Pyro3-Cryo3-Chanter3 / Cleric3-Krivis3-Miko-Taoist3), but regardless of it not every build path is valid in the current game and players are forced to pick fillers due the system nature.

By doing this move they admited that they don’t have any idea on how to make the current system work and are revamping the whole thing so the playerbase can enjoy playing whatever they want more instead of commiting to a build that can struggle when leveling (which is a core element regardless), you did had time to test out your perfect builds but most players don’t and when they screw it up it’s likely for then to drop out (which can be a huge turn off for new players and we need them).

I won’t say this change is objectively better but it brings more overal benefits than detriments, i can’t wait to make a Necromancer Alchemist that won’t be horrible cause i can’t have summons and have the possibility of going SR-Falco-BM for a super fun AA based build that is impossible on the current ranking.

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I’m not saying the new idea is bad. I’m just saying that limiting us to four classes is bad. Six would be ideal, but five really should have been the minimum. Like, I love druid2 but hate druid3 but I guess I would have to take a circle I hate instead of Kabba1 for free SP? Yeah, thanks, no. I feel like all my class freedom which I loved so much and which made this game so much better than Ragnarok Online is being taken from me. I’m really done. Their core idea is good (I am also often frustrated by not being able to pick a class because it’s not available at lower ranks where I then have filler), but by imposing other limits, they still don’t give us the freedom they claim they do.

But yeah, whatever. The changes are on KToS, so it’s not like any complaining here about the stat points or classes will have any effect. We simply get what others already got. This is not a iToS-only-thing, so nothing said here makes any impact anyway.

So yeah, I’m out.

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This is just me… but think of 9 clases for swordman to choose, and the hidden only can be chosen once giving something like 10x8x7 = 560 different “options”, tis just a theory, but time will tell…

Mixed feelings.
I somehow cherish my builds and usually try to keep them as intact as possible, getting the maximum from what I’ve got. It will be just painful to reconcept all of my characters. At the other hand, I feel like I’ll probably be able to test something new…
For some concepts, it’s actually hard to choose 10 classes/rank right now, so going for 4 maybe partially logical…
But I also afraid they may lose niche thing that kept ToS afloat.
But okay, not enough info. Will wait and see.

560 different combination of classes can be made in the Swordsman tree

Sounds like you can only take non-hidden classes and only once (1 base class, then 3 out of 16 non-hidden classes = 560 combinations).
What happens to hidden classes then…