Tree of Savior Forum

Rant about Rogue

Class and Rank Archer
#1

I don’t even know how to format this properly, so have a wall of text

The class is, to say the least, underwhelming. Just by plainly looking at the class, you can see it has a pretty decent crit chance and evasion buff, can trash evasion of your targets, buff STR for everyone in your party and later it gets Backstab, which deals loads of damage. But when you start comparing this skillset with other later rank classes, it becomes obvious that there isn’t much of a point to pick more than one Rogue circle. Just by comparing numbers, you can see that the only good skills Rogue has going for it are Feint, Capture, Evasion and Lachrymator. Vendetta deals very little damage and the buff it provides is pretty meaningless. The fact that you must execute your target to even get the STR buff makes the skill even worse. I personally was planning to rely on Backstab quite a lot, since the damage it deals seemed pretty good and it can be further multiplied by 3 with Karacha Set, but when I checked the damage of some skills Fletcher, Musketeer, Cannoneer have, I started to wonder why do I even bother with Rogue. Even at 10/10, Backstab damage is so meaningless compared to these other skills, some of which are even AoE and not single target bursts. It’s ridiculous. Even landing it is not too easy, since the angle in which the skill registers is definitely less than 90 degrees, 75 perhaps? In PvE, even with it’s seemingly high damage, it’s easily outshined by skills other classes have and it is nearly impossible to land it efficiently in PvP.

Rogue definitely seems like a class which is difficult to play. Because of a high skill cap, it should feel rewarding to land Backstabs against another players in PvP, it should feel good to see those bosses melt. But why would anyone even bother, when you can roll with Fletcher/Musketeer/Cannoneer, stay back and just wreck everything in PvE/PvP. At the moment, the only good thing about Rogue are it’s buffs and debuffs. Archer skill tree is mainly about DPS and Rogue has none of it. I feel like with more classes and skills coming out, Rogue will become a Rodelero of the Archer class tree

#2

imagine the possibilities
the class is viable pvp

of course musk is better i think

#3

Theres a lot of people that would like to play rogue for the assassin like character but dont because of this.

I would still like to know if backstab works with falconer’s circling, cuz if it does it might be worth going for it for AoE in pve which is the bigest problem for me with backstab.

They could take some simple steps to buf rogue. For example with BS’s attribute, if it didnt increase the CD by 10 seconds maybe it would be viable even if you had to go fletcher or QS for the bleed. Another thing thye could do is change vendetta to apply a bleed also, so it could synergy with BS’s attribute.

#4

The real question here, at least for me, is: why the hell rogue isn’t an inicial class?

I mean, in Ragnarok thief/rogue/assasins were one of, if not THE most popular class in the game, what the heck the producers of ToS were thinking by not including it in their game…

For me, rogue seems so kinda out of place in the archer tree… but maybe, its only me.

#5

As far as I know, IMC didn’t want to have a “criminal” class.

1 Like
#6

Wow, your gripes about Rogue are totally different from mine, which is:

Why the hell is a thief class in the archer tree? I don’t want to have to main hand a crossbow and off hand a dagger(neat concept but should have been optional). Not to mention a Backstab skill on a ranged class is like bad comedy.

Right now it seems like Corsair plays exactly like I hoped Rogue would. Sigh.

#7

That’s what I am trying to say… I feel like a rogue class deservers a tree of its own…

And to the fellow who said that IMC didn’t want a criminal class, why bother putting rogue on the game than?

#8

That’s my thoughts too.

Gameplay wise, it would be better to have rogue class on swordsman tree.

But Lore wise, it makes sense for it to be on archer tree.

#9

In many games rogue is close to archer. While archer main bow and use dagger in close combat to not be completly owned in melee, the rogues are fighting in close combat most of the time and just use bows/crosbows to take aggro from monsters or to attack while they got bind (rooted) by magic, to not be completly owned by ranged.

In several games rogue advancement is assasin(thief) or an archer(hunter) - you specialize with one of the weapons the rogues may use. In other games, such as Nostale, an archer can choose its spells before combat and become an Assasin who use daggers only (+chain hook/bombs), an Ranger with more range and better bow-related skills, or some sort of mecha-archer who uses pistols, guns, etc.

Basically archers and rogues are usually weak on STR and lack of durability. Instead they get plenty of DEX and dodge + lots of crits to made up for it. While archers use DEX for p.att with bows and benefit from distance combat to avoid being hurt, the assasins use DEX more for dodging attacks and getting better crits, as they engage in close combat and need to kill enemy fast or dodge as many hits possible.

You can think of it as a character who lack of brute force and physical strenght. A character that uses cunning, tricks, dexternity - all possible methods to counter his fragilness: from attacking at distance, to use blinding gas, slow down skills, poisons that weaken enemy, traps, bombs, invisibility, and most notably, they aim for weak points of enemies to land critical hits.

Swordsman on the other hand is the brute force warrior with plenty of stamine - they dont need trickery to win combat - they are very sturdy and can carry heavy swords to hurt enemies hard even without critical hits.

For me its rather weird that shinobi is not in archer tree as their hidden class. Afterall shinobi uses tricks, cunning, etc to fight enemies. It doesn’t fit for a swordsman to suddenly start throwing daggers/kunai or shurikens. Just imagine Hulk throwing shurikens - seriously why would he do that?

#10

Rogues are bandits that actually used bows for ranged weaponry before getting up close with daggers, think robin hood and his group. So its not rly out of their fantasy to be in the archer tree.

Now lets get back to the topic. Im still going to give rogue a try and experiment with it.

I think poeple tend not to look at attributes for the skills. Theres a very usefull attribute on feint that makes backstab slightly more valuable.

#11

I just don’t see Backstab being THAT useful outside of pvp. I guess when I think of rogues I think more of the “stealth and ambush from the rear” as a core part of the gameplay. That doesn’t seem to be the case with ToS’s version and even if it were, how often are you able to sneak up on aggressive mobs in this game?

#12

Rogue definitely belongs in the Archer tree, since it’s not a brute force Swordsman type of character

I was planning to pick Rogue, but as I said, you’ll pretty much never even get a chance to Backstab someone in PvP, since people will almost always face you and you’ll never manage to get behind them. Finding cloaked Scouts with AoE is easy. Also, Feint gives very little time for you to land a Backstab, if your target knows what he’s doing, he’ll turn around immediately. PvE wise, you can’t even pick Scout, since you’ll have almost no damage and will have to rely on your early rank class skills. I decided to drop the assassin gimmick build and just gonna roll with Fletcher

Also, Circling+Backstab works, so try it if you want

#13

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#14

Sorry, what?

Rogue in RO is a 2nd class change (NOVICE -> Thief -> Rogue) so you being upset it’s not an initial class by bringing up RO, in which Rogue is also not an initial class, baffles me.

#15

What about flu flu’s fear from scout? Does it work on bosses and against players? is it a chance? Cuz thats another way to get backstabs in

#16

i find Burrow interesting since it doesnt look like it has any duration time.

Can you burrow for life o3o ? Combined with running shot i guess it could be good? if they stack of course.

#17

The problem is Rouge most skills are melee. Melee should be an optional for any kind of Archer. NOT LIKE THIS.
Add throwing dagger(very low cd) and buff Vendetta should do the work.

@STAFF_John

#18

i dont know man rogue seems viable to me, bossing wise atleast

#19

Maybe once Hackapell comes out Rouge will have more use in builds.

#20

Don’t understand the hate for Rouges, really i don’t.
Vendetta has little damage? what? at least according to TOS skill build, it does as much damage as backstab if the target bleeds (which backstab applies), also its ranged.
Getting the STR bonus from adds/mobs is easy, as it hits hard enough, just by looking at the numbers.

Sneak hit by itself is a good reason to pick the rogue tree, it probably ain’t going to be that good at AOE clearing, but i see its a huge boost in DMG vs bosses, solo or party, and in general vs single targets.
Ranger tree covers up the AOE issues.

From the videos i saw you can “dance” around bosses and it takes time for them to turn around, means you can get sneak hit into effect, this gets easier with evasion as it boosts move speed.

The “Close range” rogue playstyle works even better with Ranger Barrage, as you can activate Sneak hit and “Shot gun” the boss with barrage for insane burst damage.

Sneak hit+ swift step + all other CRIT modifiers on most of the archer/ranger tree can result in alot of CRITs without even stacking Dex.

Here is an example (PvE).

Rogue C2 can also be changed for Musketter, as honestly Rogue C1 is enough for just sneak hit alone.