Tree of Savior Forum

Ranking up made less punishing, but still permanent: The "Circle Reset" fix that works for everyone

General Discussion
#181

this one, is not a problem for the people who im worried about, the kind of people that have the skills full at lvl 100 (see a swordman lvl 50 with all his current skills maxed via trainer)

“Your skills learned for the current circle at the time of reset are unlearned and all of the skill points you’ve earned at your point of reset are unlearned (obviously). Same with attributes.”

this one isnt clear.

“Once you reach class level 15, and subsequently, upgrade to the following rank, you are no longer able to reset the previous circle. It is locked. You can, however, follow the same mechanics for your current, new circle.”

So is just a 1 time full reset or you cant reset until you reach max rank?, because if is a just one time reset, i cant see anything to arge against and is a truly good idea.

#182

Honestly, I think that a circle reset would be fine if they’re following a few conditions and depending on the time of which it’s implemented.
For now, I find it really hard to believe that we’ll see any Circle resets being implemented. Maybe in a year or so, but I don’t see it being anywhere in their “To do” list for a long time.

#183

read everything and… no bro no.

#184

for so many threads and so many pros and cons, id still say no~

now just do a poll thread and see if how many lazy people really wants this implemented~

topic should be closed since everyone is just going circles with their idea/suggestions

1 Like
#185

I honestly just read about 1/3 of the thread, will probably read the rest later…
I agree with most of the proposal in OP, though personally I’d like a simpler option, I don’t agree with having to revert to 1 and grind back up; I think if people have worked hard to progress to a certain level, we deserve to keep some of that achievement.
maybe we can be allowed an option to choose to reset:

  • only 1 of any of the 6 circles prior to your 7th OR only your 7th circle
  • skills in only 1 circle OR your stats from a fixed level (46?) until your current level
  • full reset with only the gained exp for stats for a fixed range (say level 86-100) OR skill points for redistribution for one or 2 circles (your last or first 2)

maybe someone had already proposed the same so I agree with that, my point is, I don’t agree with a full, clean slate reset (with all the stats etc available for redistribution) but I also don’t agree with having to grind back up from 1 (level, circle etc), I hope the option would allow us to retain some achievements we already worked hard for, yet limit what we can change

#186

sighs, a circle reset feature one shape or another, is going to eventually happen. The players who will pay the most money towards this game will be the casual players, either for tokens to sell to get silver on, cosmetics, Enchant scrolls, etc, etc. And the casual player, at least the majority of them, Majority, not all of them, ill say it again for the reading impaired, MAJORITY, NOT ALL OF THEM, and again, for GOOD MEASURE, MAJORITY, NOT ALL OF THEM, will rather quit the game, thus gone forever be their wallet in which money springs forth to pay developers, thus lost profit.

It will be added, those who cry and whine and moan and rage and go red/blue/yellow/purple in the face saying otherwise, the MAJORITY OF THEM, NOT ALL OF THEM, ill say it once more for GOOD MEASURE, the MAJORITY OF THEM, NOT ALL OF THEM, likely have 10+ hours a day to play, and dont mind repeating the very exact same content each time nerfs/buffs/major changes happen to get the perfect character once again.

Enough people are yelling for it, its going to happen, may as well accept it.

#187

casuals ? so you need to be a hard core player to read and understand wrong or mising text on lots of skills?or to fined later that some skill dont even work the way they need to?

#188

So basically, you can abandon your current circle (with your class level returning to 1) pick a different option for the same rank and dot he quest for it instead.

Till now I was only for a full 1/1 character-reset with some kind of boost to reach the same rank at half the effort/time. But I see 0 problems with your suggestion, and it would be extremely useful, address most of the reasons why people want class-resets and gives everyone a bit of room for experimenting.

Let me do an example just because.

Say you’re an Archer-Archer-Sapper-Sapper and reach Rank5.

Your advancement options for R5 are: Archer3,Ranger,QS,Hunter,Sapper3,Scout,Wugushi,Rogue,Fletcher

You could pick Sapper3, get to 2-3 class level, test Spike Shooter or something, figure you don’t like it, open up the advancement window (which still has the same rank5 options) pick Archer3, do the quest, and viola you are now Archer1-Archer2-Sapper1-Sapper2-Archer3 instead, with class level on 1 again. Test Twin arrows or whatever, and if you don’t see it being worthwhile to you either, you re-pick to another class etc.

So you always lose all effort you’ve spent in the current rank so far (but keep your character level…)

A technical problem I see though, is skill points that have been spent into a C2/C3. IF you reset a C2 or C3 rank, there is no way for the game to know what skill points to take out of the skills from that class.

Also, perhaps it should be impossible to reset your class after reaching class level 6 or something.

#189

Why is it that this “casual this casuals that” arguments seems to pop up like mushrooms after rain while I sleep? American continent, I’m watching at your direction. Or is it just my imagination that there are more of those when I check the forums after waking up? >.>

Anyways, that’s sort of fallacy and lazy excuse for your opinion. That’s because at the same time you define these casual players being huge proportion or majority of players, being somewhat synonymous to the average player. Then at the same time by casual player you mean helpless whiny crybabies, which no one admits belonging to. “Not me but the casuals…” I find it hard to believe that these two definitions can be fulfilled at the same time. Or do you think that on average players are helpless crybabies who want everything now without effort and still enjoy playing Korean mmorpgs game after game? I find it hard to believe and unless you have some real statistics or studies to support this claim, then I’m encouraging everyone to ignore posts basing on this argument. It wouldn’t be that constructive to continue this discussion from those premises.

I’m aware of the statistics where huge proportions will hop from game to the next at the beginning of new mmorpg until probably settling on one they enjoy playing enough. That’s separate thing I think. But someone might bother grasping straws and bring that up without being able to connect these two things in a convincing manner.

And while I’m whining about the level of comments, “just because” comments aren’t really constructive from then other side either. I think op started this thread in civilized manner and encouraged on proper discussion about this topic. Please respect it even if you disagree and go to those first few poop smearing threads I didn’t even bother to follow halfway through.

TL;DR: I want one thread dedicated for more mature approach on this topic even though I think it’s somewhat pointless to discuss about in my opinion (I don’t think the game designers would really listen to players on this matter, to one way or another). The topic is still pretty interesting.

#190

How can someone that spends hours in a row just posting on forums, be considered a casual?

That’s a fair suggestion.
Cautious warning tho, consider the type of posts OP makes. (I think one of those bait/stay night memes would be really appropriate here)

There was one in the suggestion forum. Which is best place for a topic like that anyway.

If the OP here considers reading arguments and posts instead of just flaming tho, I will consider making constructive posts with arguments to the OP (as I did a few days ago).

What is missing here ofcourse, is that this still allows abuse. (by the hardcore) The argument about merchants has already been mentioned. I could make a pardoner, sell scrolls for millions then in a week level that character as an entirely different class. Especially at rank 7, which is current max. What’s to stop those that have a lot of time on their hands from resetting their rank 7 class all the time?
Yes, having it be only the last circle would limit the abuse, but it would not remove it.

Secondly, since it allows someone change their last class at will, this has the potential to have a devastating effect on those that do like to try things out.
They would reset their current circle a few times, and before you know it they are now 2 ranks below everyone else at their level. And that much further away from their rank 7 build.
I can imagine that someone that went through this would be a lot less motivated to continue playing the game.

Thirdly, leveling a class rank up can take a bit of time. I’m not at all sure how your suggestion is good for casual players.

And finally; this would do nothing for someone that makes their build only to find out their final rank’s abilities werent as they thought they were. Yes, they would be able to reset their R7, or R6. But would of still have ‘‘messed up their perfect build’’, and only changing their last circle would not help them.

I don’t think it helps your ‘‘sides’’ argumentation, that everyone is arguing for a different kind of reset, while ignoring that people want resets for all sort of reasons.
You can’t just say ‘‘this works for everyone’’ when it’s just a reset that seems convienent to you.

I am against resets of any kind, but the only fair reset I can see is one that would reset character AND rank levels in their entirety, while restoring quests/exp cards, keep everything else the character has (items, silver, journal). Yes you could limit it to high levels only, but that would screw over anyone that isnt as high level as you but still ‘‘screwed their build’’.
Yes you could say ‘‘make it cost a lot of TP’’ but that would just make this discussion into one of ‘‘P2W’’.

Ofcourse in my opinion ‘‘full reset’’ isnt given as an example because it’s too easily countered. Perhaps it is, but its the only kind of reset that helps everyone asking for a reset.

#191

Edited: well, gg, im awesome isntead of making a new reply i edited this one by mistake, forgot what i wrote here.

Something about asking the person i replied to to read again what i said in my previous post.

#192

This is a great compromise! However, what about the people who want a reset because of a patch rendered their build unenjoyable, or is that not an issue for you?
Since, if it’s locked, and there comes a time in the future where the locked class is changed, they’re still in the same boat as before.

Some would say that a patch is the biggest need for a class reset, not just for people who made their own mistakes.

1 Like
#193

so if the the tooltips lacks information where people need to get it from? go and do a doctorat research?
i sorry to say this but when the game FAILED hard core to explain how skills work/what they do then there is a bog problem.

#194

IMC need to give a reset to the changed class by default.
hell a game like maplestory do this and its have no builds what so ever.

1 Like
#195

I don’t like it. OP’s idea dumbs the system down for the foolish and doesn’t even address the problem of drastic revisions a year down the line punishing people who actually knew what they were doing.

Sorry, if you made a bad character, you deserve a bad character, or a reroll.

1 Like
#196

how its punishing people who actually knew what they were doing?
peole get punished now if any thing.

#197

Where do you go when you need any kind of information? Oh wait, the internets!

It might come as news to you, but its true, internet always has information, its rather a question about how lazy people are.

"oh ive been playing this game for a few days now, i just reached
rank 3~5 and i wonder why descriptions doesnt match what the skill
actually does!

perhaps i could find answers to my questions about skills/classes in
the forum, or i could use google, nah, ill just proceed fighting till
people agrees that circle resets is absolutely necessary, time to keep
on playing!"

If anything, being too lazy to gather information means that the person is punishing him/herself.

I wonder just how many posts/threads have been made, stating that the game isnt complete yet.

#198

you wnat to do this retarded lets do this retarded, ohh wait imc did this for use.
yuo do understand that if IMC is so retardedly stupid then at last they MUST have a way for people to fix what THEY ■■■■■■ UP HARD CORE, or yuo to stupid to see it?
or did i missed the big announcement by IMC that yuo need to look what skills do out of the game.

it’s the full release of the game by the way, game isnt complete yet is BS.

#199

This idea is good. Upvoted.

#200

Wrong, we are not in full release yet.

And looking for answers to questions is common sense.