Tree of Savior Forum

PVP rebalance? What do you want?

We know a PVP Rebalance is next in their priority list.

So what does everyone want to see in a new pvp rebalance of combat?

My personal thoughts are:

Damage - 10%
Damage right now is so high the it makes pvp a rock paper scissors mode a lot of the time. Where players pick skills and, presuming they don’t miss, the one that picked the right skill to counter the other wins the fight. There’s very little extended fighting except between Clerics that can heal themselves. A damage reduction would allow for much more extended fights to occur, it would allow for players to make mistakes and not insta-die. This allows new players to actually learn during matches and feel less frustrated. Better players will still win. Fights will just be more interesting. I think the current massive amounts of damage that players do in pvp is the main reason everyone goes full CON - so they can survive a couple of hits/mistakes where necessary. Full CON should not be completely necessary just to play pvp.

Heal - 10%
Healing has never been reduced for pvp, despite the fact that TBL has half damage, which is strange. Healing should be reduced equally according to damage reduction. This includes potions.

R7X
This skill needs to be made MUCH more visible so that people can actually see it. It probably also needs a nerf, however I wouldn’t want to suggest over-nerfing. Making it much more visible might be enough for players to counter-play against it properly. Lots of skills suffer from this problem actually, the game does not visually communicate very well to players, especially incredibly important things like “If you attack this player strongly you will instantly die due to zzzzzzzap”. Visual communication is a major factor in the balancing of things like this.

CDs
Doubling CDs might have interesting effects. Forcing players to use their skills smartly. And/Or forcing players to use many more skills in their toolkit in order to get the job done.

I also strongly feel content is an issue that should/could be addressed. But that’s probably worth discussing separately to what should occur to all-classes.

I don’t think individual skills should have separate rules inside pvp compared to outside of pvp. Changes need to be global and easy to communicate to players so they can immediately jump in. It would be a mistake to have lots of skills with individual special rules inside pvp.

Discuss. Disagree. Argue. We should talk about this as we KNOW this is what they are currently working on. People should share their views before they start announcing things that we might dislike.

EDIT: Other core issues being brought up often below in the thread.

De-synchronisation from knockback/knockdown
Gear Standardisation
Level standardisation too low for R8 skill damage resulting in low hp

Tagging staff so they’re aware we’re creating a useful thread for them on this topic.
@STAFF_Letitia @STAFF_Amy @STAFF_Yuri

EDIT:

Upcoming announced TBL changes:

Click Here to go to where discussion on these changes begins in the thread

3 Likes

R7X needs a nerf in PVP.
reduce its duration to somewhat 10s-15s (now its more than 100% uptime) or reduce its dmg altogether.
this skill is way too strong, especially now that the 1 dmg thingy is gone this skill now is stronger than ever.

1 Like

I would like if they brought back standardised gear. Right now its just a duel between who has the most expensive weapon, and gear-based pvp also makes it harder to balance skills to prevent oneshots while not screwing over people with lower level weapons.

17 Likes

Maybe reduce weapon damage by a ton but leave damage gained from STR/INT at 100% so that pure CON isn’t the obvious build.

Game obviously needs some kind of diminishing returns on crowd control so that after you get hit by a CC you gain a stacking buff that reduces further CC duration, so that you can’t just be permanently frozen etc. Similarly some skills like Iron Hook just CC you for way too long.

10 Likes

THIS, or perhaps they’d just add a “Standardized Gear” Queue. Let the OP players fight between each other, and the rest have fun.

With standardized gear, I think IMC should be able to identify easier which skills need balancing in TBL and GvG. This also allows newer players to join without feeling discriminated or anxious about what his teammates might say about him for having crappy gear yet still joining TBL.

THIS too.

1 Like

Maybe something like Elsword’s knockdown counter limit?:thinking:
Basic attacks/skills adds a KD count, when limit is reached, force knockdown happens, then invulnerable state applies a short duration.
KD count can be reduced via skills(most swordies, some archers and clerics) that knockdowns(ragdolls=no invi-frame KD).

What about disallowing repeat CC from a single player, but allowing stacking CC through multiple players?

So one player can’t keep someone CCd, but several players alternating their CC properly could keep some CC up. This encourages another thing we strongly lack in tos pvp that mobas do VERY well - team combos. Moba gameplay is basically mmo skills distilled into an extremely well balanced style of pvp that I think is worth taking hints from. We should be encouraging TEAM combos, not solo combos.

That of course relies on CDs being increased a lot. One of the major reasons mobas encourage team combos is because CDs are 30-60s (and sometimes longer) per skill with 4-5 skills. Smite combos spring to mind the most as an example of that, where players will carefully combine their strongest skills, watching for what their teammates are doing and going all-in at the moment of initiation by a tanky or CC character.

A simple “you can’t CC this player” for 2 seconds after the end of the last CC would work well. While still allowing teammates to use their CC.

IMC said in their dev blog about some kind of dimishing returns for CC, removal of huge stats difference from equipments and hopefully removal of CC and damage immunity skills, for TBL.

What i am concerned about is the degree of those changes. Related skills (immunity) will be changed to still be useful or just disabled? Will damage adjustment be enough so we can look for other things besides base damage + trans?

Psychokino is probabbly the class that relies on CC the most. Pole is dead already. You can only hit Swap in something already CC’d.
MF + Raise is what makes Kino3 wanted and can decide a battle alone, but also has many classes able to counter the combo (tho it is RNG to get a team with said classes, higher rankings is full of them). PP stun and Telekinesis used only when you have the advantage and enemy is not immune.

The class either needs a rework or some really clever counter measure from IMC to work well and healthly at the same time.

Leave skills as it is aside from the mention regulation. I don’t want an SR or archer complaining how OP missile hole is without doing something to outwit the skill. or a Mage crying about how OP doppels are without doing anything to outwit the Doppel. Any class has an advantage and disadvantage. Some people are just too lazy to look for those disadvantages of their enemies

Only thing i want is standardized gear.

1 Like

Diminishing CCs is a must for balance imo. Many skills also will require their duration cut down for TBL, eg, Missile Hole, R7F, Stop etc.

As much as I like to forever CC an opponent just like good old WoE days (Stonecurse for 10+ secs an opponent, then reapply again after 10secs effectively locking the opponent/several opponents out of the entire WoE duration or as long as my stock of yellow gems last), it doesn’t really foster good and balanced gameplay.

Skills such as CC and damage prevention should be situational and reward players for learning when is the best time to use.

For gear wise, an option to enter TBL with default gear will be really good. This makes the fight more balanced as all will have similar gear levels and is easier for devs to balance the player vs player arena by eliminating the effects gear has on skills.

2 Likes

“Leave the game terrible because I enjoy my overpowered class.”

Ok.

1 Like

R7F overheat, reduce revive CD drastically, new subzero shield attribute - team shared, buff sleep AOE, safety wall overheat, Ausrine rework: grants 1k def and 1k magic def for every skill used, prophesy/bloodletting - lvl 9 status immunity, sonic strike 3x overheat (insta win).

CC is probably the greatest threat to PVP balance. Numbers can be changed to prevent too much or too little damage, but the current CC system requires an actual overhaul. Right now there just really isn’t an actual system in place. It’s either get CC’d or not, with a strange difficult to build for status resistance system to supplement it. What we need is an actual CC system that either employs timers or numbers (like the Block/Evasion formula) and make CC an aspect to build for. I’d personally like to see a reduction in overall CC and have it used more strategically.

This would also solve the PVE CC problem as well.

3 Likes

Sure, because missile hole isn’t op. I don’t see how making a whole class tree useless is op. It’s fine. Ausrine is fine too, being invulnerable isn’t op.

and rename the game to Tree Of Cleric.

If they really want to rebalance pvp they literally have to make secondary damage scaling for skills just for pvp. The current damage is way too high, most skills just 1 shots others or simply stunlock till dead. And standardise gear/stats as per classes.

1 Like

IMO, removing transcendence effects during TBL will make a difference.

Different skill factor for pvp is good as well. Right now we’re seeing op damage because imc has rebalanced the skills for pve. So, that makes pvp kinda broken in terms of damage imo.

Also, for priest3, right now is kinda useless due to nerf of stone skin. If IMC wants to make this class useful in pvp, im fine with the absence of block, but please buff the damage reduction. Because even with lv6 stone skin (-22% dmg reduction) its kinda useless and waste of buff slot because you could still see high damage or even one-shotted.

I would be fine with the current x7 if it couldn’t be applied to pets, summons and structures. Normally you die to it because a sneaky penpen has it.