Tree of Savior Forum

Please, save the Tree of Savior

General Discussion
#43

It’s a MMORPG, thus -> competitive game. People use all means they can to compete with others -> buy silver on black market, hoard TP and roll gachas, play 24/7 to get ahead. You know, usual stuff for any MMORPG. Yes, blackmarket silver sells are bad and illegal, but unless developers deliberately try to stop it and ban-hammer not only sellers, but all byers, they would never disappear.

And they won’t, cause IMC don’t see it as a major threat to the game economy. Neither do I, btw, cause you can’t trade silver in direct deals, you have to use RMT style market transactions -> portion of the silver is being washed out due to market fees and taxation. Bots, that hoard all that silver are something should be taken care of, not the RMT itself, in my personal opinion.

Don’t know about Silu, but on SEA merged server’s economy and market seems pretty stable to me. Only Masinios Mace rc went up to 200m and it was in the period of chapplaininqui CM solo abuse, now the prices is stedily dropping down.

#44

Silver buyers and sellers will hurt the economy whether or not you are a legit hardcore or casual player. The economy affects everyone. Do you not understand this?

A hardcore player is not gonna earn in a few hrs what a bot will earn grinding out these lvl 300 maps 24 hrs a day, days, weeks, and maybe even months at a time.

3 Likes
#45

Well explain then how exactly they affect economy please.

#46

Apparently, items’ prices are based on how hard/easy it is to farm an item. Given bots can farm 24/7 they decrease the importance of the how “easy/hard” to farm an item, hence while we assume the demand is stable, but supplies grow larger, it makes the value of an item lower to be able to sell it at a much faster rate. This also applies to silver.

Correct me if im wrong, this is just how i understand the fundamentals of economics in this kind of market.

#47

You should look up currency inflation and its negative effects. TOS is one of the worst games I’ve ever played when it comes to it. It’s really a shame too because a lot of it could have been easily slowed down but they decided to let people ‘legit’ afk farm with their necromancers for a year and a half or so and still for some reason don’t really seem to care about the current ‘illegitimate’ afk farming ones.

That’s exactly what people are doing, which is why we’ve had a fairly high decline in population nearly every month for over 2 years now. I’m not trying to doom post, and I know some people here do, but a lot of the people who criticize the game actually do care about it and just hate where the game is going because of neglect/botters/whatever reason.

In my honest opinion, threads like this are really important (even if some reasons may be wrong or over exaggerated) because it’s feedback that IMC should care about. Developers who care about their product love feedback, its a huge part of any business really. Also IMC does listen, we’ve seen that before, but they’re generally just really slow at doing anything.

5 Likes
#48

This is the problem with Korean games~ they are too obsessed with huge gear differences with enchantment systems that end up making the game unfair and pay2win. Games like that are an RMT goldmine and they will flood it like a vulnerable cookie on a counter fulla ants…

Every effort they take to stop it just ends up hurting the playerbase more than the bots. Between the worthless restrictions and failure to stop bots this game is definitely the worst MMO economy I’ve ever experienced, as I’ve said many times before. There’s really not much we can do about it if the developers stick to such designs and have the inability to take control of anything. Our only power is just to let the game die by leaving, unfortunately. It’ll probably eventually drown in bots till even the clingy BRs leave and the only population remaining are bots. Then it can finally shut down and either rot or be passed to a different company. I’ve seen it happen to other games already.

It looks like they’re actually even encouraging it considering how they decided to develop a GvG system recently for the legal whales and illegal whales to throw their weight around in above anything else.

#49

RMT hurts the game because the source of the silver are not other players but bots, which in turn make some maps unplayable.
It’s not a question of why throwing money at someone is harmful.

Illegal creation of currency through bots is bringing down the economy.
It’s as if your bank is printing money to give it to the elitists in your country, and you have to pay the price by having to work more and more because your currency keeps dropping in buying power.

The same bread today costs a few% more than yesterday, you feel the difference and thus will become unable to buy the things you need/want.

In essence, this system has two points:

  1. equipment will net you in more silver, so you’re more likely to sell it

  2. silver has less and less value, so you’re more likely to spend larger quantities on acquiring attribute points and upgrading equipment

point 2 is a countermechanism to stop inflation from increasing too much.
It doesn’t work if there are non-players generating more currency around the clock,though, as they’re only creating silver, not items.

It’s also hilarious that they actually have enough time to create enough silver to sell 100-200m in one go.
Normally, in a decent gaming environment, this shouldn’t be possible, since only highlevel maps drop enough silver and leveling the bot, even on low-profile, should have a high chance that the bot gets caught sooner or later and would be removed by the Staff before amassing such “fortune”.

The only explanation can be that bots are active over at least a week on popular maps without any interference by the GMs. It’s even more shameful that you have to file forum reports to get rid of bots faster.
Who will create forum accounts just to report an annoying bot?

The ingame bot report should have an option to ping a GM with the location so that it can be taken care of smoothly and without the need to make a video, put it on youtube/veoh/whatever video platform and write a timestamp&location with team name and other additional info.
IMO the GM account could even be afk 90% of the day and just check the locations shortly before going off-work.
That would still help a lot to prevent botting to become a silver issue as a shorttime ban could help the investigation team and stop bots from amassing silver over several days/weeks/months.

2 Likes
#50

Well, let’s make a simple calculations. I’ll take fedi market prices as example.
We need x4 raid stones (if u use token) to do 1 raid.
Each stone is x2 blessed shards (~400k) + x5 mithril (~150k) + x5 opal (~150k) = 700k
One raid - at least 2,8kk if u’re lucky enough to get recipes ( i get 1-2 recipes in 10 chall cubes mostly)
If u’re as “lucky” as me, u have to buy raid stones from market, sure they cost more than crafted urself, on my server it’s 1,5-1,8kk per raid stone, so 6kk-7,2kk per raid.

Mostly we get only powder from raid cubes, so let’s say it’s 1 recipe per 10 cubes (i had a longer powder steaks tho), resulting price is 28kk if u craft stones urself and up to 72kk if u buy stones from market.
Finally, recipe price increases depending on item rarity.
I don’t see bot/gold sellers influence here.

About silver inflation.
Gold sellers don’t make market prices bigger, players do. And i’ve seen market prices to raise greatly after imc made “rookie” events and till dungeon silver nerf. We’ve been doin a lot of dungeon runs per day to get a lot of silver.(And i know a lot of ppl who made alt accounts just to do runs) That was a real issue, not the bots.
And huh, actually inflation affects gold sellers in a bad way, didn’t u notice their prices dropped?

Also, u can make at tens of millions a day simply by farming 300+ maps. Did u ever try?

edit:
Also, i think you forgot about simple supply and demand model.
The more ppl play the game, the less pricy items become and vice versa.
Since iTos population is small, prices are high. And the low population isn’t a bots fault, bots and rmt exist in any popular mmo too and ppl still play.
It’s imc’s decicions caused ppl to run away.

#51

I’m worried how deep you are fine with corruption. :face_with_hand_over_mouth:

Anyways, bots are cancer.

IMC is driving away playes since the 30k players loss in the first week of the game.

But image it’s a duty to keep the game clean. And fun.

1 Like
#52

bots shout selling silver everyday, buy all market tokens, imc do nothing :tired:

#53

Albion online has lost 95% of his playerbase in less than one year. Same will happen to Bless Online. The same happened to Revelation Online and it happened to Tree Of Savior too.

That’s just how it works for games now, people jump on the hype for 3 days and quit.

What TOS failed to deliver and is trying to fix is the retention of players and convertion from player to “super player”.
What TOS never did is creating an influx of new customers with campaigns and ads post-release.
You may think why, and the reason is pretty obvious, IMC itself realized the game is in a state where spending money on marketing cannot offer growth for the economic expenses, thus they are introducing changes aimed to increase the “lifetime” of the median consumer before going all in.
TLDR: Tree Of Savior is a business, welcome to the real world.

5 Likes
#54

Getting in depth with this we can take Riot Games and GoPro as examples.

Riot Games always took a really aggressive approach with League Of Legends advertising, and built patch after patch a user experience that boosts into the range of months the median “lifetime” of a new player.
By increasing the lifetime, they have increased the “window” needed for that new player to become a “super player”, what does a super player do for riot games? they provide one or both of two things, they bring other players to the game, or they buy riot points.
One advertises the game indirectly, the other funds other ads to bring more players, so the growth suprasses the bleeding, because, yeah, every single online game or business is costantly bleeding off customers.

GoPro spent money on useless ■■■■, didn’t care about their product outside of ads and shiny commercials, and is on the brink of failure.

This said, with 3000 hours racking (more like 2000 plus random afking) i would consider myself on the super/hardcore player side, and sincerely, this game totally discourages bringing friends to play.

That’s my problem, it’s too much of an hassle from any single point of view. I just take this as a cool casual game to satisfy my grinding needs.

#55

I want to believe you that you are a casual player but your post history disagrees.

#56

I’d say they (IMC) are doing pretty well in working on player ‘lifetime’.

The game is much more engaging than back in 2016 (Returnee here).

Looks like they’re working on reducing overall gain in power from upgrades as well, which would greatly help with power spread among the ‘haves’ and ‘have nots’. Of course, there’ll still be these kind of threads where its easier to complain than actually play the game .-.

As much as people hate bots, there hasn’t been a game where they’ve been completely eliminated, except by making RMT as unprofitable for them as possible (by either legal methods of RMT, or other less successful methods).

#57

Imho, i play CASUALLY, i’m not a casual player.

My point is that the bleed is so high because they are not even advertising. They know the game is still in an unprofitable state.

1 Like
#58

It may be hard to believe but some video games don’t allow any trades or market so the bots have not any reasons to be there.

#59

Sigh…

Look, to give you an analogy…

We’re all talking about trucks, and truck after-market parts.
You pop in here and say “It may be hard to believe, but bicycles don’t allow these after-market parts”

Yeah, they’re both methods of transportation, but still…

To be specific, since you don’t seem to understand the context, I was referring to online multiplayer games. To be even MORE specific, ones that allow trading of in-game currency and items.

#60

how to earn tens of millions a day on farming 300+ maps when i spend my day trying to earn irl dineros ; w ;

#61

Wow, you can’t even fix your mouth to say that silver sellers, buyers, and bots are a problem. You even said the inflation hurts the silver sellers too. Can you even say that bots and silver buyers are bad?

Now that multiple users have explained to you how silver sellers and buyers hurt the economy, explain to us how people can make tens of millions of silver (at least 20mil) per day from just farming 300+ maps in a timely manner ( we aren’t bots, we can only play so many hours a day).

5 Likes
#62

You don’t need to farm 20 mil a day if you have no time for it.
Build smartly, manage money smartly, capitalize on new patch trends to sell stuff.
For example, i bought an insane amount of card albums in november and sold them x4 the price when r9 hit.
Same with tokens, i bought a load of them with silvers i kept and waited for the price cap to rise.

  • Price stuff accordingly instead of panic selling.
  • Realize that a normal player will make at least 10k/minute silver and don’t waste time pricing bad gear precisely.
  • Always price random 350 gear at the lowest price of level 1 gems, (20-40k) never dust 350 gear unless you are full in your storage.
  • Stop spreading money on more than one char if you have no time to play.
  • Stop rerolling stats if you have no money.
  • Get a random +11 primus weapon, stats don’t matter, it equals to a +16 315 orange when transed.
  • Keep money for rush buys that you can flip.

You get rich by multiplying the worth of your efforts, you have to play SMART, not HARD.