Tree of Savior Forum

Pathetic Bosses

I agree boss battles should be fun yea some easy but most hard

there was already a thread explain y they cant really change the bosses because of the engine their using :confused: i think the bosses are ok at 40+ soloing bosses as kivirs was kinda challenging

Those ā€œbossesā€ you have to defeat during your quests are like elite mobs.

Field bosses are more like the MvPs like Ragnarok. Nevertheless, this is not Ragnarok!

Weā€™re discussing this over at beta feedback. Read if youā€™re interested in what weā€™ve come up with.

RO bosses were easy af. No skills and 100% fleeable, think they didnt even spawn mobs eitherā€¦ Or are we comparing beta tos to a 10y+ progressed game? Well then thatā€™s quite the comparison

RO bosses were easy? No mobs spawned?

Did you play on a high rate private server or something?

There werent even private servers that time and yes the mvps were easy. You could afk next to an mvp with your flee build and never get hit. Flee was not capped at 95%, your dodge chance didnt drop when there were more then 3 mobs around ya. Also not to forget, mobs had no skills.

How much easier can it get? There were people just afking with a chat open free tankā€¦

But Classes and mechanics being broken is something different from bosses being weak, no? You are using the game in itā€™s imbalanced state for your comparison.
Every boss in RO spawns mobs, they all can take out an entire group of people if they arenā€™t high enough for the boss and even though you can still solo or duo a lot of bosses, thatā€™s not the norm.

Did you suddenly become illiterate or what?
Black_waltziii is comparing first year of RO to this iCBT and you say that RO had broken mechanics while they were intended at that time? Also @kill5link what game are you even referring to?

Every MVP in RO spawned mobs POST monster skill update which was AFTER Ragnarok was already released globally. At release MVPs were basically monsters with upgraded stats but that was it. The mechanics at that time were intended to be like that. [cf. archers shooting over cliffs where they canā€™t be hit, novices having soul strike, dodge chance working like it works on homunculi today].
Back then eAthena wasnā€™t even properly distributed so private servers couldnā€™t even be made yet.

You should stop comparing a fully matured game to a game that is still in its crib, flailing its arms around trying to know where it stands. Black_waltziii did so and you thought he was spouting private server crap, shows how much research u do.

You could say RO was always in a broken state then, I didnā€™t even bother maxing on normal mobs because it was inefficient unless you farmed certain items. It was easier to solo certain bosses for the exp alone and way faster then farming mobs (pre vanilla). And with renewal being even more imbalancedā€¦ wel lets not even go there, I hope you atleast know how that part of RO works by now.

Either way RO mvps is a very bad example for this game looking at the similar options in classes available most likely this will result in the exact same way with bosses being soloable by certain classes, especially with simony scrolls around so you donā€™t even need alts/party members to support you. Iā€™m not saying bosses are done right now (still far better in comparison with the first time RO was released) but we shouldnā€™t be looking back to RO.

I started RO shortly after the games euRO release so I remember that time well. But in my opinion thatā€™s a very short-sighted view. I see it the other way around. You canā€™t make comparisons between a game made today with back then over 10 years ago.
You canā€™t possibly think that with the technologically huge leaps going on for decades now, comparing a game between these 2 time frames is plausible.

Especially since this isnā€™t a new game concept that IMC is working on at all, itā€™s something they are very familiar with. Most smaller game companies stick to what theyā€™re good at and their games become very similar. They improve upon what they learned from previous games. The same applies here.

You canā€™t compare the transition from a 0-startpoint into a game, like WoW or Everquest for example, with a transition from a game like Europa Universalis III to EU IV (offline games but still, you can apply this to any online game with successors too)

Online games have to mature over time in many regards, but the more you can basically copy paste from your earlier projects, the more you as a player should also consider the amount of time the developers already had at hand to optimize what was already there and working even if it wasnā€™t in the implementation phase then.

@black_waltziii I know you are referring to a universally applicable test-phase which every online game undergoes to ā€œripenā€, so to say. And in that sense you are right, every game undergoes those 1 to 2 years until the devs could balance the game out to their best abilities. I get where you are coming from there. Thatā€™s still an early phase tho right? Thatā€™s why a statement like ā€œRO bosses were easyā€ doesnā€™t seem appropriate to me since you refer to a time-frame of 1-2 out of 13 years (plus the reasons I stated above to warbreed).

I think that the bosses here are most likely going to end up too easy here at first too just like you, I just found your statement unfitting.

Yes, you started on euRo so you did not know how ROā€™s first year(s) actually were entirely different from when u played. That was the time that Black_waltziii was referring to yet you shunned that notion to the side.

In my opinion, I would say that the technological leaps are not what make the biggest difference for game design (in which bosses/MVPs are a factor). The biggest difference comes from the experience that the team itself has. They have/are developing 3? MMORPGā€™s in total now, so the experience in said team is better than when Ragnarok was conceived by Gravity. They did not have much experience as a team since it was the first game Gravity developed.
[note that Iā€™m not talking about individual members, there might be some savants in those teams.]

You, indeed, canā€™t compare entire games with each other with such a time frame difference. You can however look at the differences of certain aspects, in this case the bosses. That is the reason why people keep saying the game is so much like RO, because many aspects are similar. Many other aspects are completely new or a lot more worked out that they cannot be compared anymore.

They did copy paste from earlier works (GE), and this is exactly what people are having issues with. The bosses in GE also seem very slow and just stand there taking hits (both older versions and new).

I also think these two quotes show that we do agree that there is still a long way to go for IMC.

The primary reason I was ticked off was because you disregarded other peopleā€™s feedback without properly giving arguments against him.

Ikr? What a wiener-move of me. Iā€™ll reflect upon my actions during the next time I eat ice cream, Iā€™ll make sure of that. The prospects for betterment through that donā€™t look too good. But then I can at least say I tried.

[quote=ā€œwarbreed, post:54, topic:35157, full:trueā€]
The primary reason I was ticked off was because you disregarded other peopleā€™s feedback without properly giving arguments against him.[/quote]

Whenever I donā€™t manage to piss anyone off with something I write, I always feel Iā€™m doing something wrong. I can perfectly feel you tho. The gravitational pull on my teeth also gets stronger when I see someone elaborating a point and another person seemingly skips that point entirely to make his own point seem more valid. Which wasnā€™t my intention, I just sometimes make a small dip into the water to test the temperature before I jump in.
There are people who never elaborate on anything they write and they feel cool for keeping their texts shorter than yours while they argue with you, cause they think the argument is about winning/losing rather than about interpersonal communication and getting to some sort of result. Unbearable folks at times, I can tell you.

Not as unbearable as the KI in the game for bosses/summons/mobs was in iCBT but pretty close.

1 Like

i better choose pathetic rather than annoying

because right now they are both

i know imc want to make bosses more difficult

but sadly they just put the knockback thing which repel your character for like 2 or 3 annoying seconds

i never experienced this both in icbt 1 or indo cbt 1

u play necro?
20char

bossess are hard

all they do is spam their knockback.

there are no joke a few bossess that do nothing but spam their knockback

boss problem

  • AI is too low: seems dump and retard
  • Moves are too easy to predict because itā€™s just like reading an a-b-c one
  • Got only few move set

yea those genetics and gxā€™s sure got loads of challanges out of mvpā€™s. oh wait.

So hate this really, need to be fixed. specially those missions bosses, only knockbacks 24/7