Tree of Savior Forum

Open World PK and Jail system

General Discussion
#102

Faction PvP is probably the worst trend that’s ever become a thing in MMOs. The only thing it does really is create a motive through nothing for players to oppose eachother, which means completely articial tension. It’s not only boring, but also non-interactive and promotes the worst type of mentality. OWPvP works completely fine as there is either 1. a risk-reward system built in or 2. seperate from the primary server/channels. Due to how ToS has been advertised, the second option is the only one that can be considered wholeheartedly viable without reducing the appeal of the game. It’s not necessary to do anything major beyond that, and it’s absolutely not necessary to add something like factions just to water it down.

EDIT: Reply meant to @dracohandsome

2 Likes
#103

We are in a forum discussing your point of view in which I disagree completely. I am not harassing you, this is what forums are for.

However you don’t seem to like getting your ideas contested and/or criticized so I’ll just stop replying.

#104

did someone say Oracle class?

#105

More like I don’t like being trolled by someone who doesn’t even understand my point nor the context in which I spoke it.

And thank you. What a mercy.

#106

To be honest, i hated a faction system too. There are just times you wanted to PK a fellow player for being a jerk, but the system doesn’t allow you because you are from the same faction.

I guess the only option left for ToS is a separate channel or maybe a server. Unless someone thinks of a better system that can easily be accepted by the community.

#107

Faction PvP has worked before in certain cases. DAoC is a good example. The RvR gameplay was both fun and rewarding. While it created reasons for players to oppose one another, it also created reasons for players group and for them to find friends. Warhammer attempted to capture some of this again but failed in many areas. But this would be VERY difficult to impossible to implement in ToS.

I find much of the anti-PvP (as a whole, not just OWPvP or PKing) seems to be rooted in a lack of need or want for a community. People want to log on and play by themselves, with no real opposition or hardships, and log off. Even things like grouping for PvE content are being opposed by many. “Why should I have to find other people to kill a boss? I should get be able to solo all the content”.

#108

Might be a good time to point out that 1. I was replying directly to the opening post and neither recognized nor argued with any other post in this thread and 2. I never intended to suggest any particular system for Tree of Savior specifically.

For one, the game will be the same regardless of what I might suggest, and two, I don’t expect the game to have any form of field PVP anyway and could not care less about it otherwise

#109

Oracle is unique, but long cooldown

#110

Devs planning to add open world PK IF they got the resource and you all agree on it but the chances are really really really low though since their initial plan for this game is PVE

1 Like
#111

You, I like you.
(20characters)

#112

This clearly isn’t true. You’re disregarding the concerns of other people to make it seem like they’re being selfish. Most replies ITT want the system to be non-disruptive and not give players the false assumption that the game is entirely PvE based or some nerds grief-fest. Games should be fun and engaging, I don’t think I’m alone in saying most would rather see a system that accommodates all rather than cater to or baby those who only enjoy one aspect of the game.
The truth is, a lot of these ideas aren’t well thought out. There isn’t much detail or foresight on how these things will be implemented and work with existing classes.

#113

Well personally I’d rather have a game full open PK, but I know that I am actually the one who is out of place here, since from the start this was a PvE game.
Honestly I don’t understand the people who are completely against any idea involving PK even when it’s completely non-intrusive. I think there’s plenty of potential for fun ideas in this game.

1 Like
#114

Except that most of the opposition is making “worst case” PvP systems of varying types and saying how they are awful. There’s clearly systems that encourage grouping and engagement out there. The whole point was to discuss a PK system that would be engaging without hurting everyone.

Exactly. So people are immediately writing off theoretical ideas that would need to be fleshed out. Read many of the comments: people are making up worst case PvP systems and saying none of that. If a PvP system of any kind if implemented it would need to have clear goals and designs not just slapped together. There’s even opposition in this thread to the idea that PvP should give any benefits to players (usually used to incentivize it).

I’d like to see even ROs guild turf PvP system implemented. But that had so many people always complaining that you had to group/fight on your turf to get the better items which was entirely the point.

#115

I honestly like how it’s set up in the game currently. Open world pvp/pk is lame as hell and often ruins the community. The majority of players I have spent time with over the 15 years I have been gaming do not enjoy getting ganked or having to constantly be on the offensive. It’s fun for the people who are doing the attacking, yes. But it’s not something everyone enjoys. It’s not something that I should have to be forced into participating in PvP or Pking to enjoy a game that is sold as a PvE focused game anyway. I don’t mind arena, 1v1, gvg content, but I would not play this game at all (and I’m sure I am not alone) if it became open world PvP.

A possible middle ground is a PvP/PK flagging system that players can turn on or off. That way, you can fight with flagged players and those of us who don’t give a crap about PvP can get on with our in game life without the worry of having to deal with the fighting. Obviously it would need a cooldown so that it couldn’t be abused just because someone is losing.

That doesn’t mean I don’t want some content for players that enjoy these activities. However, there is no reason that I shouldn’t be able to enjoy PvE without disruption. I find competing against players boring and tiresome on open world maps. And frustrating when I’m lower leveled. It turns off so many potential players when they get repeatedly ganked. I saw someone mention earlier that this behavior is how they would get the ‘white knight’ players into action. That’s lame. Yes, ruin some new player’s first experience with the game so you can have fun. That’s what you’re doing.

This is the kind of thing that creates a toxic environment in game. I’m not meaning to imply that every PvP fan is a nasty or immature person. I know a lot of you dedicate your time to finding the best builds, help others learn how to handle the combat, and in general really try to contribute to the competitive community and make it a fun and challenging place. You guys are the exception to the rule.

However, it is no less engaging for those of us who like to do the same with PvE. For us, downing that hard boss is just as validating as doing well against another high tier competitor. Getting that rare equipment, being a world first, grinding out those rare drops is what is fun. Helping other players to enjoy the journey and having fun with whatever the endgame is. I especially am a crafter.

That being said, I love GvG content and group PvP–as endgame. WoE in RO was one of my favorite systems in any game. It really pulled a lot of people together and it was very competitive. It’s changed over the years, but initially it was so much fun. A small group could go take down a castle and really make a name for themselves within the community. Good defensive teams were awesome and it was amazing when you could finally break through. I’ve seen similar content in other MMOs on occasion. I’m not saying that we need something like WoE, I’m just saying that even as a PvE player I would like to see gainful content for PvP… just not open world. There are alternatives to that.

5 Likes
#116

@Rabbit
The thing is nobody is trying to implement any intrusive PK system in any post in this thread.

Would you be against the idea of a PK channel with, say, +5/10% EXP? That benefit is nothing for actual PvE players and PvP players would still have a little incentive to play on that channel with the risk of getting killed.

Everyone would be happy.

1 Like
#117

It was a good system. I wouldn’t mind seeing something like that implemented. It was content that was both for PvP and PvE players.

1 Like
#118

People are able to jump to worst case scenarios because they should be avoided. They exist for a reason.
None of the stuff stated is mystical once in a lifetime ■■■■ that only some maniac comes up with, concerns of twinking, multiple account abuse, griefing are all very real and valid. They’re all very real and easy things to do.

The only half decent options for world pvp suggested so far is the separate channel for PK or making it be able to be toggled on and off(with strict limitations of course). The game is already confirmed to have PvP systems what others are concerned about is how World PvP would be handled, there has to be some sort of balancing act to keep the game accessible to all and incentive for players to keep doing it.
I wouldn’t mind WoE, Arenas, Specific Events, Dueling, Seperate server or channel options, different gearsets for PvP etc but to say anyone who’s shooting down half baked ideas don’t want any challenge or “hardship” is strawmanning.

#119

iF U hate Pk users… Then Pk them… lol.

#120

Open PvP starts good but after some time, when a number of people capped, it will become quickly “open ganking” with capped players farming lowbies and noobs and the PvP stops there. Ranked arena is the better way to handle PvP imo.

#121

There are several members advocating open world PvP which is a PK system. And that is specifically what I am arguing against. I enjoy competing with other players in certain environments, as I stated in my post! It can be fun (especially since AI is often very limited and repetitive in bosses and monsters).

I have no problem with a PK channel. I think it’s a decent idea, nor would I mind a small exp bonus–because you’re in a riskier play environment. I wouldn’t even mind specific zones being open pvp during any phase of leveling. As long as there were alternative areas for people leveling/gathering/whatevering. Again, I’ve seen this in games like Aion that have two routes to cap after a certain level. After that you can open world pvp to your heart’s content or rift into enemy areas. And that latter part does certainly lead to lowbies getting beat on still sometimes… but it isn’t open all the time. It’s just one potential example. Back to what you were saying.

I have no issue with PK channels but I do understand the concerns that people have with the idea that it might end up being a ghost town.

I’m also cool with a PvP/PK server. They are often a lot of fun! I usually have alts on games that have this so that I can goof around and have fun too.

@Nodonn I know, I loved it and haven’t had a competitive experience that was anywhere near it. The crafters had a purpose in their guild even if they weren’t the best in game at it (with the ranking system in place for a bonus to potions/weapons). I was usually on Dazzler spam on defense, and I totally didn’t mind doing that. I felt like I was helping a lot with defending our castle. :confused: I really miss it a lot now that I think about it!