slightly off-topic
i dont know why everybody look into kTOS when come to update and balance, kTOS might be the first release but isnt IMC the company operate TOS?
kTOS is run by Nexon, isnt Nexon buy over the right to modify game content?
does it mean kTOS update might not apply to iTOS?
IMC mentioned that updates from kTOS will be applied once it is tested rigorously there. The update takes time applying on different servers and to avoid any inconvenience to us with little changes on the balancing.
On the topic,
I donāt mind the neutrality. The only way I see why some players like to remove neutrality is for them to have some targets to hunt who are not prepared to fight back. I say, play fair and fight those who are your equals. It is more challenging that way.
Neutrality should be a permanent choice: upon guild creation it is neutral by default, once you remove it and engage in a war then you cannot return to being neutral at all (will have to destroy and create a new guild).
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pvp is never the min feature of sny mmorpg (except for the moba and pure pvp games)
and lag has been fixed for most people, i reccomend stop hagning out in cities
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oh yeah frame drops still exist (i thought u meant u lag all the time)
Just like to make 2 points here:
1: LoL, DoTA, Smite and Overwatch are different game genres. They are designed ONLY for player versus player. Who loads up a game of League of Legends to jungle the entire match and avoid engaging in other players / tower killing? Your comparison makes no sense since the genres arenāt compatible with MMORPGs.
2: FFXIV is primarily PVE. I played FFXIV for 2 years and was also a forum reader there and people complained CONSTANTLY that PVE is dead. PVE queue times take forever because no one is that interested in PVE in FFXIV.
So you basically discredited yourself by saying things that you donāt even understand anything about.
Is PVP popular? Sure. PVP in WoW was popular, but you can argue that WoW also had the largest MMORPG playerbase in history so PVP and PVE will be popular in a game with such a diverse and large playerbase.
GW2? Yeah, that game was also designed from the beginning to support PVP and it even advertised its PVP with their main marketing campaign, but you can also play it casually, roleplaying, map exploration, jump puzzles etc and PVP was never MANDATORY in Guild Wars 2.
Is competitive multiplayer gaming popular? Absolutely. But even in the biggest MMORPG in history - WoW, PVP was not forced on you. You had choices between PVP servers, you had choices whether you wanted to enter PVP arenas. Otherwise I could just play like a casual and not care about other players PVPing me.
This is the point here. MMORPGs are more popular when players have choices and having boring as hell, pointless PVE content that you have to mindlessly slog through to get to the PVP cuz the game is ONLY about PVP creates some of the most boring and retarded MMORPGs Iāve ever played in my life. So let IMC fix the PVE in this game before they start adding PVP content because itās obvious that IMC canāt even keep up with the endless list of issues with this game as it is.
Well GvG is still in the game, they shouldnāt have advertised arena PVP content if they werenāt prepared to release it during closed beta or prior to that though in my opinion. GvG may be broken due to the neutrality system allowing guilds to be abusive and exploit it, however which I fully agree was a stupid way to implement it.
But letās assume that GvG neutrality wasnāt broken, guilds still deserve the choice on whether or not they want to participate in PVP just not implemented in the way IMC did it.
imo all mmorpg has to have some sort of pvp
2 Likes
What about choice if dont want to participate in PVE than? 
They got their choice by removing that choice from us 
Thats why iām calling out to compromise.
Your choice forces people to do something they donāt want to do. If people wanted to PVP, they would. Itās pretty simple logic in my opinion.
If you want more people to PVP in a game, the game needs to have an engaging, rewarding and fun PVP system in it. Even then, that system shouldnāt involve forcing people to PVP when they donāt want to.
You donāt like forcing? Neither do i.
Read once again. They now forcing second part of people to do only pve things.
Compromise. Please.
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nexon is the publisher they give the servers and asking for % of the profits.
what?
lol , dota2 , smite and Overwatch are exemple of how popular pvp is. this are games that didnt do pve and only have pvp. this game s have over 5m players.
ff14 developing its pvp over time. pve in there is not dead but just more of the same patch after patch. they failed to implement new things to pve.
in no MMORPG of the past 10 years is not forced on you.
so what i wanted to say is pvp is a thing much more people love compared to pve.
oh lol, u give example have good of the popular a pvp have is. me are happy u say thing have much yes 
I see some people saying these concerns dont matter because the game is focused on pve. While it is more of a pve game, that doesnt mean imc doesnt give a ā ā ā ā about pvp like you are making it seem. Notice many of the balance changes on ktos have to do with pvp only changes.
They obviously care about pvp and youd have to be blind not to see the potential of pvp in this game. pvp also adds a ton of replayability to games. More stuff to do, variety is good.
Look at it this way. There are no benefits to becoming non neutral other than if you want to pvp. Then when things like guild battle comes out, if you want to pvp you will do this instead. So they pretty much killed an entire feature of the game with they way they did neutrality.
I used to think the guild war feature was really cool. For example, think of those world boss campers that always gets the cubes and never let others get any. You had a way to stop these guys if you wanted. Maybe it would turn into a massive battle between guilds at this point. it would be fun. Now they just hit neutral. So that part of the game is gone.
There needs to be some good benefits to staying non neutral to make people not want to go neutral. Need risk/reward
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Neutrality is bad, but what is really killing open field PvP right now is the 3 war limit. There is no good reason why you must restrict how many wars we must have. And worse, it counts cooldowns too. Wars that ended and are still in the cooldown count towards this limit. Because of this, my guild hasnāt been able to PvP for 2 weeks now.
Content was literally removed from the game.
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what is really killing open field PvP is op builds that cab 1 or 2 skill kill any thing.
kToS has neutrality, so technically if heās expecting the same PvP as kToS he shouldāve been expecting neutrality.
You say this clearly as some kind of absurdist statement saying āwell i cant play the game as pvp only so why should you be able to play as pve onlyā but the joke is on you, sir, because i believe you should be able to play the game as pvp only. Warhammer Online basically allowed you to level up and gain all of your loot solely from PvPing if you so desired, and it had some of the best PvP in any MMO to date on top of that. Itās too bad the publisher pushed the marketing in all the wrong directions and just advertised it as basically another WoW clone because thatās where the money was at the time.
However that would not work in ToS in its current state; because the PvP sucks on so many levels. Horrible balance, horrible optimization, horrible formats and design decisions in the open world GvG (and honestly what Iām seeing in the new guild war mode does not seem great either, just a barely-strategic zergfest where victory by tower destruction only happens in a one sided stomp).
Donāt muddle the desire for neutrality with a complete lack of interest or even disdain for PvP. I want the game to have PvP and I want to participate in that PvP, but only if the PvP is good. Right now the PvP is ā ā ā ā , so Iām opting out.
So basically they left because they couldnt fight players who didnt want to pvp? lol.
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Dota, smite, and overwatch try p2w in any of these games.
in ToS there are too many wallet warriors around, people who doesnt RMT/sell tokens will advance to a compenetive level alot slower.
While all of these shares in common that its pvp, the āsportā itself will still be different.
Try put 2 characters against eachother in Smite/dota/overwatch
One player spends 500$ and other player is pure f2p, both players would still be in equal terms
Try put 2 characters against eachother in ToS
One player spent 500$ selling tokens
The other player is f2p
Who is likely win the duel?
Sport is always more attractive to the players when they are in equal terms.