Sounds like a huge chore tho people should not have to go to a forum to look up builds the way IMC set the game up with 80 different freaking classes makes it seem like any kind of build is viable. The thing is it isnt and if players that mess up and put that many hours into a character just quit then we will all suffer with a very small community which very bad because IMC is in it for the money.
Like I posted earlier make it a 1 or 2 time full reset a year per account and people wont abuse it.
What exactly did I dismiss? Most objections to circle reset are based on the selfish desire of those people that make them to have a better build than the rest, they donât fancy the idea that others can amend their past mistakes. I donât think those are worth replying to.
One objection that rings true with me is that making our characters and our choices permanent also makes them more meaningful and we value them more. Thereâs something to that. Like many here, I played RO a lot, and for some obscure reason I do enjoy grindy MMOs. To a degree I do identify with that way of thinking. Ten years ago I probably also would have argued against circle reset. But ten years ago I was a fool and didnât value my time very much. I do now. And so do many others.
Expecting players to reroll a character they spent hundreds of hours with is silly. Giving them an easy and complete circle reset whenever they want it is equally silly. But surely there is a middle ground that is satisfactory for most of us? We only need to find it.
That is human nature. Those who argue against reset also do it for their own benefit. The thing here is that having a circle reset benefits many people and does little harm if done properly, whereas not having it will harm many people and only bring dubious benefits to a small group of people. In my opinion, of course. Feel free to disagree and explain why.
Iâm not ignoring them, itâs just that arguing with people that I fully or partially agree with is not what I want to be doing with my time today. There are people here that are against any kind of circle reset, no matter what, and those are the ones I have a bone to pick with. Their request is not resonable and Iâm pointing out why.
No, the real reason is that the other thread had 20 replies while this one had over 300 and seemed like a better place to have this duscussion. Nice assumption, though.
Thatâs exactly why Iâm not suggesting an easy or cheap way to do this. I believe I already addressed the issue of whatâs conductive to having cookie cutter builds. Bad balance leads to cookie cutter builds. Good balance leads to a good variety of builds where circle reset is not even necessary to keep up with competiton. Itâs just a way for people to correct a mistake they made or alter a character to better suit their playstyle.
Thatâs not a straw man, thatâs a fact. You even admit to it in the very next sentence. The information is hard to come by, making it impossible for people to plan their builds in advance. If you think that itâs acceptable to waste a thousand hours to find out how that R10 class works and then reroll if you didnât like it, then you have no life outside of this game and thatâs a completely different issue that doesnât need further discussion. I mean no offence by that, but your attitude and careless acceptance of having to waste huge amounts of time because of a smal mistake in your build strikes me as quite bizzare. As I said earlier, I think itâs fine to ask people to spend 20 hours in order to get a partial circle reset. I donât think itâs fine to ask them to spend 200+ hours on rerolling.
There is no reason those versions should be so different, and if the only reason they are different is that the developers screwed up a patch and now are afraid to revert the changes because they may lose players, then thatâs bad game design and should be addressed.
What if this same thing happens in the iToS version? What if a class gets buffed to the point that everyone makes one and never gets nerfed because it may make players quit? Is that what we want?
I disagree. Strongly.
I addressed those in my previous post. A well-designed circle reset option would not lead to this.
Straw man alert. That is definitely not what I proposed. Not even close.
That they try is all Iâm asking for. However, if not having some form of circle reset prohibits them from trying to balance the game, they have a big problem on their hands.
No, thatâs not at all what I want. As you would know if you read my post carefully!
If all classes were balanced and viable, it would lead to greater build diversity. Iâm not sure why youâre trying so hard me make me seem like your enemy when in fact we both want the same thing.
May I see where exactly? We donât know this. We can only guess and your guess is not inherently better than mine. That said, I am willing to bet money on mine being correct. Letâs ask IMC to do a big poll for the whole playerbase and see where we stand.
Letâs not argue about what we donât know and letâs find out.
Also, please stop putting words in my mouth. I am not advocating what you argue against.
Thatâs funny, because you keep using straw man arguments against me but fail to actually find any in my post. What I wrote is a fact. I am not aware of any game that has more hardcore players than casual ones and that is doing well financially. Or do you know what I know better than I do?
And can you point out one game to me that fits that description? I would like to know it if there are any.
The longer it takes them, the more valid my concerns about their unwillingness to reroll become. Losing players is not good, I hope weâll agree on that.
People leave MMOs all the time, so letâs speed up that process and lose more people than we need to? Not a smart way to run a business.
If you want to claim that ToS will do just fine with a very small community that likes things rough and that IMC will not shut the game down when theyâre not making any profit on it, then that assumption is much more baseless than what I said.
I fail to see how this has any relevance to the topic at hand, sorry.
I donât see why anyone would call me a hypocrite for expressing my opinion on what I think is bad for the game. I love it as much as most people here and I want it to succeed and stay open for years to come. And no, I donât have any other account. Why would I? I go by the same name in-game if you want to hook up and talk this over. Iâve been playing on Klaipeda since the gameâs lauch, Iâll be on Fedimian after this maintenance.
I also have no need for circle reset at the moment, if you were thinking about that. Iâm quite happy with my characters and I stated as much in an earlier post.
I am 100% fine with a circle reset if they do the followingâŚ
You can keep your character level, but your class level is now level 1 at rank 1. If you have to work your way back up to rank 7 then I am fine. If not, then you can just play streamlined classes to rush to max and reset into full support and that is very discouraging.
Virtually every build is extremely viable. It just might not be the best build out there. If you donât want to do a few minutes of research on what is currently really good though, you donât deserve to complain about not having the best possible build. Your build will be viable unless you purposely try and mess it up though.
I think it would be fair if circle reset makes your character lose all the job exp and you have to level the job exp from 0. But gl with that with no exp cards
Itâs absolutely not a chore to plan your build for an hour and ask questions ingame. Itâs common to have a build before starting an MMO, and itâs certainly a good idea in one with many options.
Most other MMOs you can respec your class, like skill reset in ToS. To be able to change class choices is a little absurd even when there are so many to choose, and even when you can play so many on one character.
The variety and versatility is there to allow for diversity and replay-ability through alts, not so you can backtrack on all your mistakes. As others have said there are a lot of decent builds and you can make up for bad choices by skill reset or doing better with the next rank.
This would take longer than rerolling, because questing and achievements seem to provide more experience than grindings does. It would solve literally nothing. People would still be forced to reroll every time they wanted to correct even a minor flaw with their build. There must be a better way to implement circle reset that is acceptable for both sides of the argument.
I donât understand this sentiment. Support classes are the most sought-after in the game. DPS classes are common and thereâs very little demand for them, they often end up soloing as a result of this. FS classes are scarce and people actively look for them to have in their party. I always fume when I do dungeons with a random party and we donât get a healer. Three times in a row! Iâd rather pick one up and do a pre-made party with him/her, leading to a more pleasant experience for everyone involved. This is not limited to healers, either. I always welcome any class that can contribute to the party by providing support. Why people bring up this argument is beyond me. Support classes are not difficult to level up if youâre willing to party with other people. And who makes a support build to solo with?
Crafting classes and Templars do pose a problem, but they can be excluded and unavailable to be changed into as needed.
Support builds take a different kind of work. Itâs completely unfair that someone can level as a DPS, solo for a majority of their leveling career and then just reset into Support. It discourages leveling as Support to begin with.
If they are going to sell circle resets then they might as well just sell a max level character which lets you choose what class you want to be.
If you want to play as a Support, then play as a Support. Donât reset into it. If you want it, level it from the beginning. If they have to reset quest progress to do so, so be it. But Iâd be upset if someone could level as a DPS heavy, solo-easy class and just pay some money or whatever and reset into a class which has poor DPS and does not solo well. It completely negates the struggles of a Support. Why ever level as a Support if you can just reroll without consequence. It is absurd.
And no, you donât get exclude certain classes. If you want to do that, please exclude Chronomancers and Linkers too.
I just donât understand why go for a support build and then complain that you canât level solo as fast. We make support builds because we enjoy supporting others, right? We donât make them for soloing. And if you have a party, the leveling process is not slow by any means.
I skipped to the last few posted but did read some so IMO no reset circle as others have already stage that pre-plan your class and build before playing.
Please donât copy and paste just b/c the other player build was so strong and yet reset circle to be the same as the other person then whats the purpose of playing ToS? IMO ToS is a very unique of play style and wise choice of your personal reference into which classes chosen by you.
Therefore, NO RESET CIRCLE please b/c I hate to run into 100-1k of player are having the same sh1t build (excuse my expression).
The point is, you have to party to be effective. You have to share silver and drops with other people. When you play solo, you donât have to do that. Furthermore party play involves coordinating with various people, ensuring everyone is all caught up and ready to progress, people can go AFK, itâs a lot of management. In an ideal world, you party with a few people who perfectly compliment you and you go for hours and everyone in insync in the entire time.
Itâs not like that when you actually party with people. There is a lot of work put in. I donât think you should be able to level as a solo-easy DPS and just reset into a Full Support. Itâs just not fair. They didnât have to coordinate parties. They didnât have to share drops and silver. They have the luxury of being able to just kill things on their off time effectively. If they want to be the party member that people fight over, then they need to level it and experience it, the good and the bad. You shouldnât be able to bypass the bad just because you paid money. Thatâs sick.
However I can compromise. You can keep your character level, but Iâd like it if circle resets made you level from level 1 rank 1. That way they can actually learn the class and see progression.
Omg the point is 30%~50% os class and skills dont aork the way they need to.or may be the class you take is not run to play for you.
Why you care there be a class reset? You dobt need it dont use it.
So now it Play OP dps build for fast leve. And be that same op build like 80%~90% of people at end game.
Most players will not pick a class that may not work so good to kust be a - for an end game party.
I donât understand how are FS hard to level? Which one is? The only thing that would have killed me many times over I encountered so far is my cleric 2/diev1 phase, which I knew going into it. That isnât even a FS so that one was played as soon as pardoners appeared - problem solved.
For the casual that by now has maybe put 30 hours into the game this isnât even a problem the pardoners are already there. So I can only say that having a âhard timeâ leveling is simply a myth even just as cleric - priest 3 - pardoner - pardoner people have a constant need for me so I can grind with them. Before Alemeth I could do everything by myself and that is with making it even harder by adding 2x money maker class to the char.
If 4x Support 2x money maker class can solo up to rank 7s doorstep how is that a hard leveling experience for any of the classes. You take other combinations they should even work better.
Comparatively, FS is much harder to level than something with damage. Itâs not a myth, itâs a fact. It is harder to level and you shouldnât be able to reset into it without paying some kind of penalty.
