Tree of Savior Forum

[NOT build]Knightwalker's Deleted build

Class and Rank Cleric
#61

I don’t think 1:1 ratio is necessary. Most people say that 50 con is more than enough. I’m currently at 30 and it’s fine (I have about 8.5k hp with Beetleback). Also, at higher points of int, you get better int bonuses (One of the forum posts shows the bonuses). SO you’ll be losing out more than 150 matk (unless you did calculate the potential bonuses lost from not adding into int).

I have plenty of down time to cast DZ, it’s not like Cleric skills are at 10 second CDs. I was never too busy to cast DZ, takes like a second to anyways. DZ also adds a debuff for incineration (2 debuffs if theres a swordsman in your party).

I took druid not only for Carnivory, but for telepath as well for PVP (again, it works for most situations, unless there’s a non incapacitated PD on the other team).

If Pandemic spreads incineration, I would gladly take it, but as of now without any evidence, I’ll just keep it at 0.

Zemyna isn’t for me, but for classes that burn up SP quickly, AKA archers and warriors. -28~30 sp per skill helps save them a lot of sp seeing how their SP costs are not too high, but the amount of times they use it just drains their SP.

Divine might isn’t all that good.
Copy and pasted from another thread:

And it’s not what I think it does or not, it’s what happens. Nobody waits for you to put up DM before using all their strong skills. Most of the time it’s used up on filler low cd skills. 1 level in skills don’t add up as much as you think or not HOW you think. Say someone gets an extra level on a burst skill:

  1. It doesn’t add too much
  1. 2 mob scenarios:
    a. Your party and you are killing a mob of monsters, how much did that 1 level speed up the killing process? Most likely less than 2 seconds. 1 Level on a burst skill isn’t going to exponentially raise your damage.
    b. You’re killing a boss. Again, how much faster is sped up from +1 level on a skill that isn’t going to gain much from +1 level? Unless it’s a HP heavy boss that you cannot kill within a minute (the cd for 1 DM) or even 2 minutes (CD for 2 DMs), you’re not shaving off that much time. You have to realize unless you’re perfectly in sync with random party members (who most likely won’t wait for the CD of DM to be over to use their burst skills), you’re not benefiting a lot from DM

And yeah it was a PITA to level to Diev C2 without an option to kill flying things other than autoing them. But it was worth it in the long run. I didn’t bother with blessing scrolls, I mainly quested or partied, not that much of a grind.

#62

I will need to quote a mecanic book, so here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BxSTwgEc48JfTnRub0F0R3lwQUE/view

*STATS:
I am aware of the status bonus (PAGE 2) that get better each 50 points you have in an attributs, as I know of the 10% you get in INT/STR/DEX each rank you pass.

Anyways re-thinking on it, I guess you are right, its probably lot more then 150… But I still need life enough to run and heal my self if needed, so I will try to follow you advise and take a step thinking in “the end of the day” 2INT:1CON. I agreed that 50 is enough for PVE, but I don’t belive will be enough for PVP.

*SKILL:

I hadn’t noticed that DZ is considered 2 buffs with the attribute, it looks really good.
When I speak about time for use I don’t mean just time between cds, in a PVP perspective, you have your CD, your positioning offensive/defensive, try to get closer to an ally to “purify him” and so on.
Conclusion: It’s a good combo with incinerate and its good at PVE, but in PVP is just not good enough to make you a little worse postion, posible making you take a damage wich you could had broke the line of sight.

Incinerate is a status you can see that at (PAGE 17~18), and during my research I read about using Pandemic to spread it, not sure where. So I haven’t tested but I REALLY belive that works.

Zemyna, Yeah, I know you don’t need it. That why I suggest to get 0 at SPR. I just “teach” the technique because you spend some unecessary points on it. It’s will be a waste late game, and early on, you can just use the technique.

DM- This thread you quote isn’t reliable.
First-> the CD of DM its not 1mim its 27 sec, a minute is the duration.
Second-> with Laima it becomes 21,6 sec.
Third-> Never forget that a CD of a skill just start after you use it so:
0sec - 22sec - 44sec -66sec.
So in about a minute you can give each member of you party 20 skill with more 1 level. Considering that you have to move constantly in PVP that is SURE more then 50% of the skills you are using in this time.

I guess 1 level in a skill gives around 5% damage!? so 50% would be 2,5% more damage for ALL the parties, and never forget that DM buff everything not just damage. In my option that worth!

RANK:
I am not disagreeing about the Druid, I understand the reason, and sounds the best option. I just Fear it’s 1 Tier skills will be “useless” when the future ranks come with better offensive skill, and better “cc protects”

#63

DZ is mainly for pve, especially if you have to solo with a PD.

I’ll stay with my stance that DM is not really a big game changer. It’s near impossible to coordinate with party members not to waste DM usage on low damage filler skills. If DM was changed to stay for a minute + without usage limits, I’d drop points to get it. But for now, nope.

Also, 5% boost to the whole party doesn’t give a 25% boost. You don’t add up percentages like that. Cumutively, it’ll probably make the run less than 5% faster, which isn’t that big of a difference (and this is assuming you guys do everything perfectly in sync and only use low filler CD skills when DM is not on AKA not happening). This is also assuming you’re fighting a single target with a lot of HP.

If you’re fighting mobs, most of the the time the DM damage increase will just translate to overkilll.
EX:
say you’re fighting 10 monsters all with 1000 hp left. Assuming DM does give about a 5% boost to damaging skills. and your party members do about 200 in the next skill they use, 200 + 5% ~ 210 * 5 = 1050. In this scenario, you’ve just over killed the monster by 50 hp.
Say IF the monsters have 1050 hp. Without DM, they would be alive with 50 hp left, whereas with DM they would’ve been dead. However, realistically, how long would it take for your whole party to wipe out the remaining hp on the mob? Less than a second.

These scenarios might seem really case-specific, but generally that’s what would happen if you used DM. You either overkill or leave them the mobs alive with barely any HP left.
You’re not getting that big of a boost to really make a noticeable difference. Unless you can cut a dungeon run by at least 10 minutes with DM (or some using some sort of metric that can show significance), it really isn’t all that useful atm.

#64

I Never EVER said that you team will get 25% damage. I said 2,5% because if a team do 5% more damage in 50% of the time that mean 2,5% more average damage.
PS: The guys do NOT need to perfect sync and only use good skills, they can use low filler too. Take this as a gamble that they will make use of this 50% in good skills and 50% in bad one. It’s still the 2,5% more damage overall.

Don’t try to make scenarios one by one, they won’t represent the whole, and sometimes they can look like represent a thing they don’t.

I will make a resume, since this open to basically infinity scenarios: If you team is doing 2,5% more damage, in average you speed up your PvE 2,5% (of the fighting time) that is simply math. With the exeption that is when your pt kill the mobs in “onehit” that will keep unchanged, but this is not the dungeon/mission normal.

Finally if you think that a skill is just good if it cut 10 minutes of a dungeon I suggest you to remove ALL THE BUFFS of your chars, and most of offensive skill too because none of then do that.
As a matter of fact, make some calculation for yourself, try to find ANY skill in the game that will make a run 5~10% faster so you can eclipse DZ with that.

EDIT: Well, I think we won’t get to a “closer”. Since our opinions are too different about this, maybe the time will show if this skill shiny or don’t in PvP/PvE :slight_smile:

#65

I saw 2,5% and assumed you mistyped the comma and meant 25 instead of 2.5%, my bad.

As stated before, it’s not a case scenario, it’s what happens. I made it seem like an extreme case to describe how it works, otherwise my description would be too vague. I wasn’t saying everybody would be killing everything in one hit, I guess that example wasn’t clear enough.
Ex:
say a monster has 11k hp. Without DM party members are doing an average of 1k to it, and with DM the party is doing 1.1k to it. In this case it’ll take ~10 hits to kill with DM perfectly utilized, and 11 hits to kill without. How much longer does it take to get that extra hit in? Not that much
^this seems too case specific but this is the only way to show what generally happens.

And again, you’re not looking at the whole picture, I’m talking about everything combined + DM does not speed up a run significantly -> waste of points. We’re talking not talking about skills in general, we’re talking about everybody’s arsenal + DM added.

And as you said, DM will most likely be used on low filler skills. You have to know that +1 to low filler skills don’t contribute much. The only “real benefit” (if any at all) is to use burst skills when DM is up, which likely won’t be the case.

Regardless, this should be discussed in another thread about DM. Most people already see that DM doesn’t contribute much, so they add to other skills like DZ/Cure.

[Build] Saintone's Diev Doctor ○ Support & Offense ○ PvE & PvP (No longer updated.)
#66

hello and armor ? cloth leather o plate ?

#67

I’d say plate

Unless you’re using the Rokas robe.

#68

I’ve been thinking wouldn’t it be better to go SPR+CON, and no INT?

Since you only have 2 spells that scale off INT (Heal and Cure), and you best DPS skills (Owl and Incinerate) don’t scale off INT at all

With higher SPR you will have higher SP pool, and better SP regen so you can spam more skills before OOM

Or is there something I’m missing?

#69

Heal is good enougth reason for int, and about 50 con 30 SPR is fine the rest you can put on int

#70

Incinerate and owl scale of int.

#71

This build is int based right? Isit wise to go for rods instead of maces? How is the early levelling? Cleric2 and Diev1 doesn’t seem to have much to dps with except heal and cure =(.

How is this build’s dps faring against wizards and archers? I am considering rerolling my wizard to a int based cleric haha.

#72

@pipikk_7 As far as I know rod/staff don’t “send missile” if you are not a Wizz, they just get used as a piece of wood.
The early leveling in general could be hard… but I manage to get from 1~65 in 7 hours, just after level 30 awalys buy “bless/sacram” from pardoner, and when u get 50~65 (do DG), after this back to quest and buying buffs up to you get own.
(The buffs will make you hit like 250+250 for 30~60mim, sincc bless usually over with HITs and not time)

@Xiandrii In your end game you don’t need to have SPR, you just need to use POTION!

@neophytecontroversia I talked about this in this tópic: PvP Cleric Cloth or Plate!?

And I got the conclusion that in PVE maybe plate is better, but for PVP I definetely go for CLOTH, there are lot more “magic based then phisycal based” attack between the top tier classe in PVP.

And still, against phisycal MAYBE cloth is better ->

Most commum physical enemies
Slash -> Doppel
Stab-> Dragoon, Rogue, Fencer
Blunt-> Monk

As you can see the most commum opponent in physical damage (for PVP) use STAB, and cloth give you FREACKING 50% on resistence against it.

#73

It’s definitely a PITA before you reach rank 4 with Diev C2. Save 5 points before you reach rank 4 for Owl. Just quest, dungeon, and use some level 4 cards (along with all your other exp cards) to hit rank 4.

Wizards and archers have their own role. Wizards have better CC and the ability to mob (Cryo’s ice tree for example). With this build a cleric not only supports, but deals consistent damage for a good % of the time. In the party’s I’m running, I haven’t really seen a wizard do as much DPS as my owls due to CDs, -> lack of consistency. At max, OWL is 898 damage (without attribute) per tick and stays up 90% of the time. Diev is a contender for top DPS or at least most consistent DPS. And on top of that, you have all your support skills.

If you like the cool things wizards do, stay as wizard. But if you like supporting with statues, try Diev.

#74

What is PITA?

I should be using maces and swords at low levels(to take advantage of blessing/sacrament), then change to a rod at higher levels? This way I can boost the owl/cure/carnivory damage further? I don’t think I will be auto attacking at high levels right?

How is the solo questing? Probably need to move quite a lot when questing solo and owls are stationary on a long CD…how do you deal with that? Especially in the 100-170s before you get druid to carnivory.

#75

it means pain in the ass.

You could do that, what I had done was just auto attack flying monsters with a mace and cure/heal the rest. And yeah, you won’t be auto attacking later levels so you should probably use a rod.

For those levels, do as many dungeons and missions as possible. Because of school, I haven’t had much time to quest. But yeah, for kill quests, I would just try to lure flying stuff to owl and heal cure the rest if its on CD. Owl lasts around 50 seconds at level 5 and usually kills things in 1 or 2 bursts).

Try not to solo quest. Partying is a lot faster. You’re mostly doing it for the exp cards anyways.

#76

Do people even want healers for questing outside of grinding/dungeons? =(

#77

Wait, what else is there?

Questing? It’s part of grinding with rewards, so yes. PVP? Yes

#78

Ok, what do you think of levelling Carve to 15 and then resetting at higher levels to help in the dps at the beginning? Does Carve still do good damage even with an Int build using a mace like say Valia?

#79

what do you think to change druid for oracle or another rank, i like very much your build but i think flying monters re a problem im really newbie but i think oracle for my taste is better but i really like your opinion

#80

You can if you want, things get a lot easier with PD’s incinerate

Also, I chose Druid for telepath (PVP) and damage.

If you have a stat reset then sure. I haven’t gotten carve b/c once I hit 50, I’ve been mostly dungeon-ing and there’s no need to carve inside there. I think carve also has pretty low AOE. I’m not sure about carve and no str. I’ve been pretty busy with my last quarter so I haven’t really been grinding or questing. And I reached 100-115 just dungeoning. So it’s up to you