Honestly speaking I think hp leeching on dmg perhaps a nice idea But I guess this will only happen in dream XD
Some Earth Tower videos:
The same party in Musketeerās vision (full video):
The āMiracle Oneā Peltasta āallowingā a teamate dies (pretty sure they didnāt finish dungeon in time):
A party which the only role of Peltasta was bring the mobs. Paladinās Barrier and wizards does the rest:
Correcting thread title (even disagreeing): āNo one need you if you are not a Full Tankerā.
mages are basically like the Ragnarok Online hunters. No weakness, only strenghts. And only need 2 stats (AGI or vit for survivability, DEX for damage). On top of that they had elemental damage on their arrows + cards like 2 years before everyone else could do it, and then only with help of another class.
Eveyone else had to herpderp with DEX, AGI/VIT, STR.
RO solved the issue by giving them a 50% damage nerf in guild wars, giving them no good AoE skills, made people able to win worldbosses/MVP by damage taken also counting as damage dealt for the purpose of a win and making them unable to have a shield (which gave a lot of def in RO).
TOS should just do the same more or less.
On the Musketeer video, dat Featherfoot 42K HP tho haha , poor corsair only 20K hp 
Seriously The guys who say āNah but Swordies have really high HP, that why he is EXTREMALY Out Dpsed by mages and archers, AND EVEN FOR CLERICSā.
Con is definitely the Strongest Atribute, Some mages/clerics donāt give a single ā ā ā ā about their int and go Con 4-5 , Int 1 AND STILL DEALING 2-3X Swordies High STR and High DEX DPS.
To really think that Swordies DMG is OK, is simple intellectual dishonesty or maybe ignorance. 
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Hp leeching for all swordsman class will make my day XD
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Yes man HP Drain or Some Strong HP Regen Self-Buff would be something logical and would make swordies more viable.
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Well, does all wizards go linker? chronomancer? elementalist?
does all archers go cannoneer? musketeer? quarrelshooter?
does all clerics go priest? oracle? plague doctor?
I donāt think so. Their builds are more diverse and they still find their place in parties =)
Why only swordsman is forced to go peltast to be useful?
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Cos Dev wan u to reroll other classes and make ur swordie to be blacksmith 
Itās ātechnicallyā in the game already. See this video and proceed here if you wanna talk about it.
You know
when I first make my Swordman, I fully aware that Melle DPS cant hope to compete with those of ranged DPS.
Just being in Melle ranged require me to allocate stats to many diffrent categories. I fully aware the very limitation of chosing the way of the sword (or fence in mycase)
Need STR so can deal awesome dmg, oh I want to Crit and dodge too to survive, Darn I ofc Need HP to be able to deal DPS without die / interupted by random AOE, Now need to up some SPR for block Penetration and hopefully adaquate magic def.
that sum up my initial impresion.
and I come to the conclusion that while you can make What ever build you want and Like, whether its going to work - its not always be the case
But, that just me. trying to grasp the character I will be playing for 200+ hours.
I come to the conclusion, even before I playing it. that Swordman require more balanced status distribution - thus coupled with the fact that it was melle, plus coupled with very egoistic debuff and buff, I need to pick a tree with some utilities to offer in party play.
I got 2 friends, currently reroll into difrent class from Sworman. because at some point in our party, they aware they put the party in constant ādisarrayā whenever we do party together. something that they dont get to catch on when leveling solo. thats the benefit of having playing with friends, so everyone can disscuss and improve on something.
My regret would be chose barbarian 3 over squire. I keep thinking all barbarian 3 skill were crap, and picking squire might help with the problem that my Fencing weapon have durability of toothpick
So lets assume wizard has more useful party builds than swordman - so what? Classes are different, that is not a bad thing.
Recent MMOās tend to make every class work the same, just slapping different names and visuals on very slight variations of the mechanics. If you want that, play one of those games.
From my understanding this is (outlined very roughly) how classes differ:
Swordman class solos well, but struggles in a party unless you spec for it. Wiz and Cleric struggle solo unless forgoing options to be useful in a group, but have more options to benefit a party. Archers have many flavors of dps, but lack support and apparently suck in pvp.
Why only swordsman is forced to go peltast to be useful?
Really, peltasta1 is NOT a big investment. Compare that to the commitment a mage has to make when going chrono3. Or a full spr cleric, try even getting that to lvls where people group up. You would probably quit before reaching 4th circleā¦
I agree that peltasta1 is not a big investment, but i dont like the idea of swordsman being labeled ONLY as tanks/meat shield =/ā¦ People are complaining so much about swordies dps at higher levelsā¦
Why they created classes like dragoon? doppelsoeldner? If youāre going to be a meat shield anywaysā¦ Sad but trueā¦ Swordies are weakā¦ only useful for the taunt, for convenience at higher levelsā¦ you can even go swordsman c3 -> peltast c3 -> highlander(stupid build)ā¦ it doesnt matter hahahaha
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But you can also go for s1-pelt2(or pelt1/hop1)-rodel2 into any combination of cataphract, fencer, templar, pelt3, rode3, corsair, more hoplite etcā¦
There are lots of valid and cool tank builds out there that nobody is playing because swordmen just feel so damn good when you play that hl-barb solo.
Swordman have a lots of cool solo builds that are well rounded but lack at contributing to a group. This includes hl, barb, hoplite, corsair, doppel and many more
Swordman also have a lot of cool tank builds that can go as deep into tanking and supporting as you want to(cata for more ms, rode3 for additional strike debuff, pelt 3 for MOAR TAUNT, corsair for that flag buff, templar/squire just because you can etc)
And if you want a build that is an awesome solo but can still group you just pick up peltasta1 at lvl 14-16 and go on with your awesome solo build.
Swordman class does not have a balance problem.
The only reason why groups are ok with taking dps+pelt1(or swordman3/pelt3/hl to use your example) along is because much less swordmen go for a dedicated grp support/tank build than wizards/clerics do. And archers donāt even have the option to tank, why should swordmen also outdo them in damage?
To summarize my previous posts in here:
Swordman class is fine as it is.
Swordman class has a wide variety of solo builds that rank among the best ingame.
Swordman class also has a wide variety of tank/support builds, which usually include at least a single rank of Peltasta.
For players who like to solo swordman class is a treasure trove of various builds. Which is why a lot of players go for the former kind of swordman build.
For people who want to commit themselves to make a group based build, classes like wizard and cleric seem the obvious choices, which is why there are not a lot of players going for the latter kind of swordman build.
Now TOS sadly by the way it is designed does not really encourage group play(outside of instanced dungeons) in the early (1-150) levels. This goes even more for builds capable of soloing well - why would they bother with a group if they are more effective alone. - solo builds profit
Once you get to the later levels though, party play becomes more and more common. Now of course, by the same logic solo players were playing alone before, parties prefer to take people who can actually contribute. - party builds profit
The problem, which this thread is trying to discuss is in my opinion only percieved because the perspective is screwed.
The problem is not that all Swordmen need to pick Peltasta to stay relevant in later party play.
Rather players who play solo a lot will play Swordmen, usually builds without Peltasta. Because Swordmen are great at soloing - especially the builds without Peltasta.
Those players now hit the wall of āoh damn party play is awesome now, but i couldnāt contribute much to a party if my life depended on it because I specialized my build to be a strong solo characterā. Honestly? You get what you signed up for. You played an awesome solo build that is still awesome at soloing. It is just that grouping up gets better than soloing. You want in on that? Make a build that can contribute. Very much unlike op presents this, the variety of such builds is great, even in Swordman class.
TL;DR;
You were not forced into anything. You committed to a build that was awesome for 200 levels and now gets less awesome. In reaction you look down on the other players that had a hard time getting to the point where they are relevant and call them op and demand a rework so you can keep being awesome forever? Donāt be like that. Youāre unreasonable.
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Well, reading your post, it makes sense. Thanks for contributing to the discussion! I agree with you, that builds like Chrono c3 for example should provide a MUCH higher party play experience at higher levels.
The game indeed has a bad design towards party play in the beginning, i agree that builds like Highlander/Barbarian should do less damage in the endgame (early game they do SO much damage), but classes like Doppelsoeldner, Dragoon, feels so lackluster compared to Warlock-Ele3, Cannoneerā¦ and Warlock-Ele3 is not even hard to lvl in the beginning neither is Cannoneerā¦ (Believe me, i have lvld both). You could say that it is BORING, but hard it isnāt.
We already have our disadvantages like close range, our stat distribution must be done in 3 attributes(str-dex-con)ā¦ getting in to the endgame with a class that was supposed to be dps-oriented like Doppelsoelner (that trades defense for damage), and doing less damage than clerics? come onā¦ We arenāt whining like kids hereā¦ we have a reasonā¦ and IMO builds for party play should not be only about peltastā¦
For example a Rodelero without peltast would be excluded in the same way, as the other great solo classes like highlander, because the main attraction is ONE single skill. How can you say this game has a wide variety of tank/support builds for swordsman, when in truth they donāt care what class you areā¦ They only care if you have swashbuckling?
I respect your opinion, you made a good statement. I just donāt agree in some parts.
Random question: Are you CBEN Dr4gon?
This is really spot on. Swordsmen have it really easy in terms of survivability for the majority of play. That means that swordsmen over the lifespan of the game have the equivalent of first turn advantage. This allows them to essentially pioneer and gain market advantages faster as an entire class. Thereās also the unique bit where only Swordsmen can lead guilds (or at least one must have played a Swordsman).
People are far too obsessed with the very narrow definition of gameplay in an MMO. If all you care about are raids, frankly you should be looking into different types of games where they focus on that kind of content exclusively. If instead you decide to go with the holistic approach, youāll realize that Swordsmen have all sorts of advantages simply because they tend to get first dibs.
We donāt have to go far for proof. Check the class sections on this forum. Notice how only the Swordsman has stickied guides? Thatās the first turn advantage at work, revealing things about our general class faster than other forums. That in turn affects how the average person builds, which is something that you could use your brain to estimate what might actually transpire in the meta or markets.
And again, we control the guilds. We have disproportionate control over some of the strongest social forces in MMOs. Take that as you will.
Constantly comparing oneself to others will only make one angry.
Yes, all Swordman group builds base on at least one level of peltasta. Why is that a bad thing? The less you need to take, the more freedom of choice you have, right? Also, peltasta1 is only good enough for groups, because real tank builds are so damn rare. If more people played dedicated tank, pelt1/dps would only be second choice for most content.
As for doppel. Cyclone is really strong, Double Pay Earn is excellent, and Deeds of Valor gives the strongest Atk buff in the game. Circle 2 may be weak, weak circles are not something that is exclusive to Swordmen.
And if you want to compare Musketeer/Cannoneer, compare them with Dragoon. While the Archer skills might look better from the numbers, most of Dragoons skills are multihit and still get very huge boni, probably resulting in higher damage overall. Also since dragoon has synergy with hoplite/cataphract, while musket/cannon need to use their class specific weapons, which is always a bother, since those may not give optimal stats or makes you have to switch equipment all the time.
no Iām not. Who is that guy that stole my name?! D:
ā¦ getting a lot of gateway errors from forum servers I hope Iām not accidentally tripleposting this for the 3rd time -.-"
Rank 1 Swordsman needs an aoe taunt. Not one as good as pelt, but something.
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Rank1 Swordman has the provoke attribute and an aoe autoattack. Isnāt that exactly what you are asking for?