yeah if you account to, other long ranged class that have
Longer CD, easly intruptable skills, long casting times (from 2 to 10s). some or all of those are common found in Longer ranged Class.
If you want a Swordman with comparable DPS to wizard but the setup were equaly fragile. that wont work on melle range
what you all asking were all pros and no cons kinda thing.
Troll, take it somewhere else please.
Wait for 210+, youāll see why they complain 
Overall dps =/= burst.
Swordman should be able to dps (2 class for tanking, only rank 1 for peltasta is usefull (except improving swash buckling, which can be done thanks to gems anyway, and high guard, but i didnāt fall in love with that skill to be honest) and 2 rank for rodelero (just for magic resist, and itās almost situational compared to what clerics can bring to you in term of magical tankyness) since most of his ranks are purely non-effective for high level content. Basicly, youāll press 3 buttons at level 200+, shiltering, swash buckling and C. Tell me how fun this is ? It falls down to 2 if you didnāt go rodelero (most of swordies didnāt take rodelero).
How dare you say swordies donāt need some changes when whatever is your build, youāll end up using 2 buttons because the other one donāt bring anything to your party? Evasion sucks (big investment to dodge only physical damage, magic will be a big issue) STR doesnāt scale well (swordies damage are low compared to other class anyway) and SPR isnāt super effective.
Whatās the point of doing a whole melee archetype if they are stuck to One-hand + Shield in C ? Yeah you still can do your damage skill, but at the end of the day, iām not sure youāll notice any difference in term of exp/hour or cleaning time.
so, are you so salty when someone disagree ?
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IMO what Swordmans need is improvement to rigibility.
the way to reach it were not the way of out-DPSing Wizard or Archer class as many seems sugest here
more number more number more number
Boring stuff
what swordman need is Stuff like LifeSteal, vampirism or life Leach. which heal portion of your damage will definitly help. something that diffrent than just outDPSing other class
consumables that grant magical damage reduction or can grant partial magical imunities for duration, or buff that granted that
frontline and backline combatant should be diffrent with their own pros and cons
and people just asking for more number,more damage,more AOE
very one dimensional thinking imo
u arent playing right , im lvl 220 and im far from uselessā¦ still use bash and umb to knockback mobs or moving them to aoe skills.
unlike other mmorpg swordman class is actually hard , u need to play something similar to dota 2 xD .
life steal is a pretty amazing idea . i think pain barrier is amazing too ā¦ i want to try maxing pain barrier and getting just 1 swordman buff cause bash can be pretty amazing when mobbing.
yeah
The Idea is makin swordman as DPS a more self sustaining. so healer wont always babysit them, in exchange of smaller DPS output
what people asking here were OUTDPS every class because Swordman in Frontline ?
a very one dimensional thinking that more likely result in imbalance class that will make every other become salty
Just decent dps should be enough. I think most swordmans ask for decent dps, not opshitclass Or atleast, being tanky enough for damage dealer swordies to be able to stick at body to body to deal damage, 'cause thatās a huge point too. You cannot afford switching stance in a pack right now, or even vs bosses.
Soā¦ you use 3 skills, thatās nice. Knockbacksā¦ if you pull well, you donāt need to use this. Stuns donāt work most of the time. Youāre not even a CC machine. Youāre just a C machine. I donāt see where itās hard to press C and sometimes swashbucklings. Positionning mobs isnāt hard at all. Iām not saying we are useless. Iām just saying thereās nothing fun about swordsman.
Hi, Iām swordman -> peltasta -> hoplite -> cataphract c3 -> dragoon
(well, actually iām still on cata c2)
I took peltasta at 2nd rank only couse I think it may be less usless than sword c2 or highlander.
And I create that build by me not looking on guides only couse i want use 2H spears. Only later I found that itās pretty usual.
I was going to DPS, but when I start going dungeons I found that iām always a tank. Even if iām not use swash bulking cause I havenāt 1H weapon and shield. Passive taunt is enoth.
And, yknow, iām OK with it.
But it was a bit sad when one hunter in duel just erase almoust whole my HP with only one skill, even if I have 3 times more than he does.
well im pet hop doppel and i use alot of skill actually .
swordman bach work from my experience 85% of the time , u cant knockback boss and elite mob but that is fine , i use it when mobbing and i want to cyclone them or to help mages to land their spell .
as a hop i actually use every skill , throw spear for mobbing is amazing and spear lundge can make 50% dmg ( can kill elite mobs from my lvl in one stabbing 80k hp or so ) and u have one skill to get closer to ur enemy and one skill that can do pretty nice dmg to large mobs and well doppel for cyclone.
The worst type of tank is the one that just press C , of course if u want to deal the more dmg possible for this class u need support but if u get a good support u can yolo againts 20 mobs using ur skill and being fine , run with ur 62 stamina for more mobs while ur teammates dont take almost no dmg and this my friend is the best tank i have seen in this game , im a noob just lvl 220 so i speak from my experience and im pretty sure that i can do more dmg than the 75% ppl that i have been in party.
Problem is currently swordman lose out in every aspects, from DPS (wizard + archer) to tanking (cleric). With the nature of TOS, tanking is not highly appreciated (you only need a pull, anyone can tank as long as there is a healer) so it is understandable to ask for more DPS.
Unless the entire nature of game change to the point like other MMOs, where raid boss one shot everyone except tank, and tank is required for end game content, then swordman will not ask for more DPS.
A full tank swordsman (with cleric support) is definitely better than cleric in tanking because of higher block and defence.
I donāt agree. Youāre hung up on the balance of their weaknesses but youāre missing out on why ranged classes have their āflawsā to begin with.
-High Cooldowns and Channeling: Have you not noticed how long ranged dps can continuously keep pumping out damage in an ideal situation? If a character has no or limited contact with the boss mechanics, then the only way to decrease their constant dps is through cooldowns and channeling restrictions. Otherwise they could have literally no downtime in damage aside from the occasional boss mechanics that get within range of a ranged character.
Also, high and low cooldowns encourage very different playstyles and risk/reward sets. High cooldowns and channeling mechanics encourage a more elusive and in passive playing style that fits with ranged or stealth characters. Where low cooldowns fit more for brawlers and other melee dps to encourage a higher risk to get their reward. It also encourages them to get close and stay close to enemies in order to constantly pump out dps. Thereās also cases like channeling melee, but iām sure you can imagine how that must be balanced by now.
-Frailty: The frailty of ranged DPS is because of how limited point 1 is once ranged characters can continuously pump out damage (Like Fletcher). Surviving 2 or 3 attacks on a ranged character is big only because they seldom get hit to begin with.
Melee DPS on the otherhand NEED a decent hp pool to work with. Simply because they have much more to account for in most situations. Frailty is relative to the position you hold most often afterall.
-Now on damage. Theoretically, melee should have a higher possible damage range than their ranged counterparts because of how unlikely theyāll be able to reach that theoretical limit. Where as ranged classes are much more likely to make their own theoretical limit in more situations. May also want to factor in that magic doesnāt miss and that archers virtually donāt miss as well.
So melee wielders āshouldā have more damage than ranged dps, if played perfectly on a pushover of a boss. While having an average that ranges below or above ranged dps. Along with a substantually higher health pool. #2cents
lol canāt doā¦ but yeah i get your point. i guess in a scenario like that you will need high HP and some healersā¦ since buffs only raise physical defense and not magical defense
being a peltasta is very good, but taunting a bunch of magic/ranged type monsters can be annoyingā¦ lol
Yes, because that is a peltasta/hoplite, see the thread title
you are free to disagree.
IMO the way you balance a class, is not just closer equal to more damage.
it just balancing fail.
it would be OK concept if, the class more or less like Assasin. which swordman is not
the idea of balancing should revolve more on presenting uniqueness, diffrent playstyle. and adding damage number is not the solution imo
Magician would have no problem sustaining continous use of their skills, but the relativly long cooldown.
the long uptime for their skills, and practicly very bad normal attack for filler need proper setup which is where Tank came to fill
the AoE also usualy have problem with moving mobs or Boss
The Archer, have relativly short CD skills with high SP cost, the problem with Archer class lies more in their inept SP to keep up, which would not fare well in attrition
In my suggestion, the idea of balancing swordmans should revolve not on hard hitting skill
but the uptime of the skill. providing steady stream of damage.
coupled with many swordman skill provide interuption and flinch.
DPS swordmans should be the class that can control the mobs.
thus the optimal way would be tinkering with CD and overheat, rather than damage