I really wanted to go Swordman c3 but yeh, im forced to pick up pel1 to enjoy endgame so meh… I wish they gave Swordman C3 a taunt buff. That way dps builds can have the ability to be accepted in parties without being a spank and tank build.
In fact, it should be the reversed logic.
Archer should maintain some constant dps, while swordsman should be able to burst and run. You can’t decently dps when you have to run all over in order to survive (level 200+, you won’t stay long at melee vs boss if you’re not a C-player), feeling amazingly squishy. When a swordsman can use 2 skills without taking too much risks, an archer pulls out 3 times it’s damage without any flaws. That’s the point. Overheat mechanism are nice, but how can you fulfil your damage dealing with a sustain damage dealer stick at body-to-body, while melee is so deadly? It’s not like you could improve your tankiness anyway. Having a good CON pool upgrades the damage you can take, but they are SO HIGH that having 100con more equals to 1 more hit.
Safety zone ? Most of the time a group won’t expect a swordie to take that defense tool for the little damage they bring when they’re not in C stance.
They’d rather make safe big damage dealers based on channeling (which is logic). More than it, it doesn’t last long enough to make a swordie catching up archer’s damage.
The most viable tank-damage dealer i’ve found till now is a rodelero, with a Strike based build, which is purely mono-target. So yeah, he’s stuck at 2 buttons for grinding aswell, he might try to kill some isolated target, to feel a bit useful, but an archer can do the same without running all around 
I’m not saying “nerf op archer and wizz”, i’m just saying we should be able to see some damage dealer swordies not taking deadly risks for half the damage of an archer. They need to fix something in the mechanics for the swordies. More passiv tankyness (because just an higher pool hp doesn’t mitigate any kind of damage) or more burst damage (this should make the switching stance interresting) or maybe some CC on bosses (even Arrest for Squire ends up by being more annoying than useful, since it triggers any special mouvement skill from bosses) or atleast making mobs not so resistant to stuns. Having some utility spells would be great, but actually none of your skill will upgrade missile type damage or magical damage from your friends archer and wizz. I’d like to play my swordie without feeling like a better Statue of Laima.
thats why there should be a skill like LifeLeach, or Limited Magical Damage Imunuties (that can be granted by self or cleric class)
Swordman need to held front lines, with or without tank.
with or without shield
just running, and dealing DPS burst is more like Assasin game play
you are a swordman, and you hi tail from opponent
there is a pop culture saying about swordman should never show his back to enemy.
or it was disgrace for a swordman to have wound on his back
what you suggest is a very diffrent way of how pop culture view of how swordmaster usualy depicited.
a Coward ones, that more like assasin (burst and run, serriusly)
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Your general direction is right, DPS might not be the answer.
However, I believe sustain is not the answer either (since cleric is much better at that already)
The answer, IMO, is maneuver.
There should be 2 main styles of swordman:
- Damage type (not necessarily be DPS, but still can): the ones that rush into enemies and cause rampage. Represent by current Doppel and Cataphract. They need better gap closer, and more knock-type CC.
- Tank type: peltasta and hoplite is currently fine.
Let’s talk a bit about damage type. I think the damage output of swordman is fine, but the risk is too high. My suggestion would be reduce the cast animation + backswing on all swordman skills, while increasing base mobility. That way swordman can go in, cast skills to do damage, then side-step or dance around to avoid threat, but continue to be able to deal damage.
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Why are you guys forcusin on what SHOULD be, based on your previous game experiences or point of view?
It is possible to come up with something entirely new and still make a fun game to play. What we need, or argue about in this thread, is not if the 4 classes should play like this game or that game, or that moba or the other single players game, I think that the most important thing will be to have a balance where every class will be able to fill a role and be welcome in group content.
Sadly, even if the devs make this happen, bias and prejudice from the players will still make some builds unwanted: we don’t want you becuase back then your class was useless, better go with the tested formula.
Also balancing pvp and pve is always a pain, it is possible that in the devs’ eyes, some class circles are meant for pvp and they don’t want to bother fixing them for pve because it would only bring forth more problems, leading to a continuos nerf and buff game (I know pvp is a joke right now).
Maybe their vision is swordman tank for pve, swordman dps is pvp only, who knows.
It doesn’t have to OUTDPS every other Classes, Archer/Wiz. For example, the current issue is where those swordies which went for Full Dps build would find themselves rarely to being none recruited/accepted into a 230++ party grind that’s only looking for Tank, Healer, & Wiz/Archer Dpsers. This makes it sounds as if “Oh Full Dps Swordie Build? You’re F.ed, good luck in finding 230+++ party grinds”. You made it sound as if anyone who plays as a swordie must/have to be a Tank naturally. There’s a reason why the developers have made all these class diversities for swordies and others else what’s the point of ToS advertising all these number’s of flexible build choices. Currently they have not much use other than to Tank in many of the high lvl party grinds. Even mages can be useful even if they went for full con support/dps and still find themselves easily accepted due to the vast amount of CC & Aoe they have.
Don’t you see the big picture here, it has come to the point where people are reluctant to accept Dps Build swordies when there are far better options to choose (Archer/Wiz). Won’t it sound better if ppl are recruiting dpsers be it Archer/Wiz/Swordies?
They don’t have to outdps or overbuffed since that would cause the issue to turn the other way round for the rest of the classes. They should atleast reduce the survivability of the Dps build swordies in return for better CC/Dmg or like what you have proposed earlier (life steal). Hence, making them useful again as a dpser in order to get back the demands which were disregarded.
I did mention this earlier not sure if u have read or just missed it 
I rmbr dat moment when i ran into a bunch of mobs not noticing most were magics and Taunted… 5secs later got rekt even heals cant even save my ass
i dont think IMC cares about this,we get what the kr versions has and thats it,dont spect to get job balance for now maybe on a few months if we r lucky,besides that there is multiple post about swordman being useless after 200+ as DPS and not a single reply back from the Staff wich means they dont have time for this cause they are busy tryng to sell more packs,dealing with the Bots and stuff,this is simple u dont like how the swordman is then dont play swordman play another class if u see all this complains over and over just get over it and do what u actually can do o.o u can still have fun playing TOS ,we got tons of classes let the swordmans rest for a while take a break relax play a good old fashion ranged DPS and let the swordmans for now to the ppl that like to tank .
nah, by giving more damage, when you singled them out of party context you have imbalance class.
you should all know that being melle DPS come with several or many limitation (in any games litteraly - its on every game logic, and real life ones too), and very few swordman tree offer benefit in party play, (and all DPSer out there chose not to pick one, and confused why I dont get picked).
the way to fix that is not just giving them damage damage and damage. its not a solution for this problem.
The right answer should be Swordman would be offering diffrent kind of utilities for party.
Maybe an Aura like Abilities that reduce resistence or armor, that can be stacked with multiple swordman overlaping on same area.
party wide aura that grant vampirism, and so on
cause, even if Full DPS swordman deal same or bigger damage as a wizard. I will still pick a wizard.
beside it would be easier for the healer to took care of backliner DPS which is more static, than someone that in frontline dodging, circling, running etc and if they equaly as fragile as backliner. the hazard is greater, and tasking for other people.
Why would I pick one like that ? lol
The whole design of the swordsmen class has been straight up in the emy face, lots of DPS, HP, and can run.
We dont have aoe CC (good ones atleaast) we dont have linker stuff, we dont have party buffs, only cosair make people get more silver.
Srsly, its just the damage issue.
People pick DPS route for swordsman, and find out they do the least damage out of all the dps classes.
Low attack range = More HP
Low attack damage = ??? Running?
Super agree. Been saying that for forever.
To dps u need to get close
To survive u need to move
To dps u need to stay still
???
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Well i agree with the aura and what i mentioned before bout the dps/def/eva compensation was just a random example 
Still if u mean taking care of backliner dps then yeah most wiz does that but archers which are even more fragile than swordies have high dps skills which needs to get close range to deal the highest dmg (exp. Barrage, Feint+Barrage combo and backstab(not sure bout the rest), unless one party goes with all dps wiz+tank+healer
So even if they didnt get hp nerf for boost in dps, this also will allow swordies to be able to output pretty good dps while enduring damages or even while dodging and running around. Else sooner or later there wont be anyone hunting world bosses as swordies and its gona be full of wiz/archer and healers only 
because if they are given defense resistance aura then the other competing party would just be benefiting from it since these debuff are shared on the boss like Wugushi’s poison which based on the latest applier on bosses and are not individually counted hence causing dps issues when there are more than 1 wugushi’s in each parties. (Can’t confirm tho obtained the info from a fellow wugushi) 
No one forgot to mention that ’ No one need a second peltasta ? ’
even if you all now go and make c1 pelt in your tree.
as a C1 myself I won’t take or need any other pelts… which make my priority instantly non pelt swordsman if there any around…
and that aside of picking goodies from other classes.
so… no one need you if you’re not peltasta ? and no one need you if you are a peltasta ?
feel free to go DPS swordsman, out there inside the game they WILL accept you. but if you’re looking to be accepted in imagenation party in the forum, that won’t work ! !
To dps you need to get close
To survive you need to wear full plate armor set and aspersion buff
To dps you need to have a large portion of your stat points on STR, and not CON & DEX
Fixed*
not really, since you only need 1 rank in peltasta to be “viable” as a tank, that means that with all the other ranks you could do whatever
Let me add another thought to this. I didnt read all the comments so idk if it has already been brought up.
Right now i hear the only endgame thing is earth tower. Im not that high up yet, but i hear this is a horde of enemies which means peltasta3 is sought after. This also makes wizards with all thier aoe spells sought after.
Lets say at a later date they release another dungeon. In this dungeon there are much less enemies, but much more powerful. So strong that you may be able to only take one on at a time. Wouldnt this make any rank in peltasta a waste? Swordsman already get 500% aggro generation attribute, is this enough to keep aggro on one or 2 mobs?
Also, if you are only fighting one enemy, wouldnt this make all the AOE spells essentially be single target spells? How does swordman single target dps compare to a wizard specced for AOE attacks? Maybe these creatures even have really high magical resistance.
My point is, just because the only endgame dungeon right now favors certain things, doesnt mean all dungeons will be that way. They will always add more content. Certain classes may be better at one dungeon, but not others.
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interesting point of view
I wish they could just buff war cry’s AOE to be as large as Swash Buckling= (
I went Swordman 2 - Barbarian 3 planning on gettin’ Fencer 2.
It really kills me inside knowing that I’m a viable… nothing. DPS? Nope, ranged DPS takes the cake. Tank? With… what skills, exactly? plus magic damage #rekts me. OH YEAH, I’ve got a lot HP. Yeah. Oh, wait. I’m a melee. I get hit more often… gotta deal with positionals and AoE, losing even more DPS in the process.
I regret not picking Pelt 1 back then. I wish there was a single reset feature to address that or a major buff for melee DPS classes. Not all people want to solo all the things. However, if you want to play in party, you need to fill a role. Tanking should be an option for the class, not a must.
I’m aware of the Barbarian buffs, however looks like DPS is not our major expectation. I really don’t feel like rolling another character. It takes too much time. Time that I don’t really have. I really don’t know what to do.
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