By insta-buying a new character you are buying enough time to grind for gears instead of leveling. But I agree, EXP cards comparison is more accurate.
I was trying to say that not all methods of making money are good for a company/game. This should not be used as an argument.
I like it too.
Weird, each time I log onto a mmorpg where changes has been made to a class that Iām playing, All of my skill points are always refunded.
Seems like common sense to me to at least let those affected by major changes in their class to be able to at least have the opportunity to relocate their skill points and adapt to the unexpected changes brought forth to their class.
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No on other games you kill x monster level up go to next and never look back. TOS: grind x monster one time. Oh new content go grind that same monster again. oh yet more new content time to go back and grind that monster again.
Having 2 characters it more diverse? How so?Do you dual log and play them both the same time? No your playing either one or the other. [quote=āatari, post:625, topic:232755ā]
Class reset = changing classes. You are just trying to make more conveient definitions.
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No change class is from swordman to wizard not from wizard to wizard or to a GM. And i have made it clear that the goal is to give people a second chance if the game messed them up. And i have made it clear that im for restrictions in resets to not allow people to reset willy nilly. You on the other hand wants to punish those that get ā ā ā ā ā ā over by new content even though its not their fault.
Because with EXP a NEW guy can become max lvl instantly. Changing build on a char you at least have to play through once.
So you have no counter argument and post this? No thinking required? I have been thinking and even taken into consideration YOUR concerns about people abusing the reset by suggesting limitations and what not. I want to find the balance between fixing a build so people arenāt force to quit or remake and abusing the system all together. YOU on the other didnāt think at all and keeps āsaying nonono i donāt want itā and never once offered any suggestions to the problem that some people do get screwed over by new content. YOUR solution is let them quit, reroll, or force them to play a build thatās not fun anymore.[quote=āatari, post:625, topic:232755ā]
No pity for people who cannot make a well-thought build or trying to always be on the top with the constantly changing meta of this unfinished game.
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This is exactly what im talking about. This "fck those that got scewed over by new content, fck those that canāt make a future proof build even though the future is so unpredictable " attitude.
Great [quote=āatari, post:625, topic:232755ā]
Let me agree with this. But I donāt see any problems with something like cards/equip amplifying your skills.
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Great[quote=āatari, post:625, topic:232755ā]
Let me disagree with the rest. How many patches with new maps and stuff had pre-renewal RO?
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I may have exaggerated when i said no game. the point is most of the time when a game progresses so does the character.[quote=āatari, post:625, topic:232755ā]
You have a good imagination. Test server = private server huh?
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Test server, private server, server123 doesnt matter itās just a name. Itās the idea that matters. Why allow others to test builds in another server but not in the actual? Actually that answer doesnāt even matter to me. I just want people to not have their characters screwed over by new content.
Again thatās not the point. The point is why ability to test out of official game but not in. And again answer doesnāt really matter to me. The only reason i asked in the first place was cuz that sounded a little hypocritical.
Why not make money from EXP CARDs? Same reason why i walk into a shoe store and want to buy 1 pair of shoe why do i have to buy a t-shirt with it? Why must reset come with op gear and EXP cards? Why takes things to the extreme when no one asked for it?
This is like asking why am i allowed to bump into people in the street but why am i not allow to punch them? Because one is light physical contact while the other is extreme physical contact.
The only reason I really see why people are against it is because they want to be so called āhardcoreā. But why not find that middle ground and allow people to opt out of a broken build that is not due to their fault but due to IMC fcking with them? And please donāt tell me its their fault that they donāt have a crystal ball and canāt tell the future to make future proof builds.
Do you know how renewal in RO screwed some classes? No reset of course.
Actually I have 2 sorcs on 2 accounts and log in at the same time, but thatās another story, hu3hu3hu3.
Classes are classes. They are here for a reason. You are just playing with words,
I replied to this.
Now you are telling me that you donāt care.
1 click reset to a new build? This is all the same.
I donāt. Iāve never played.
Sounds like you doing some intense afk farming lol.
No im not. Classes are not classes the way TOS applies it. At least they are not the ones that everyone is use to. They applied classes in a different way so we need to treat them in a different way. A class in TOS is nothing more than a skill build in other mmorpgs. If you like comparing it with RO, agi two handed quicken knights and branishing spear knights are nothing more than different knight builds. Just like how dopples and dragoons are nothing more than swordman builds in TOS. You may call it a class or a skill build the concept is the same.
No im telling you im reasonable and if youāre so strongly against people being able to reset even if the game didnāt fck with them (which i have no problem with and still donāt understand why you do) then Im willing to coup with it to find a middle ground. Thus im willing to restrict resets. [quote=āatari, post:632, topic:232755ā]
1 click reset to a new build? This is all the same.
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Cmon now im repeating myself. EXP card allow a new player to get to endgame without playing the game, To use a reset you must at least play through once and already have a character there. Also with EXP card you can use on any character so it also allows swordmans to reset into wizards(which im against) and reset is still from base class to same base class. And with EXP card you only need to buy enough to get a character to max then you will have both your original build and your new build and your free to swap between to two. But with reset you must pay ever time to swap which is a restriction that is needed. Lastly EXP card still causes you to lose everything from the original character so it donāt even solve the issue. This is why EXP cards are not a solution and solves nothing thus why no one is asking for them in the first place.
And as i said im reasonable, if you donāt like one click reset then apply a system that is also reasonable and not have them grind from lvl1 and lose everything on that character such as untradable TP costumes, achievement points, hidden quests, etc.
( Ķ”Ā° ĶŹ Ķ”Ā°)
Denying a basic game concept and trying to compare it with other games <_<.
They will be abused anyway.
Okay, resets are not that P2W but still too much for me.
Oh, well. Both are cancer. IMC should make those costumes transferrable through the team storage (I thought they already did it). And achievement points are just an e-peen saying how much silver you spent on upgrades.
Um i didnāt deny a basic concept you did. You said a class is a class in TOS just because itās named a āclassā. My counter argument was a class in TOS is a skill build in other games because the concept is the same. And i compared it to RO just for you since youāre the one that brought up RO in the first place.
How?
I donāt know if costumes are transferrable neither i just know they canāt be tradable thus assume they cant be placed in team storage. Well the silver spent on upgrading your items is one of the things i donāt want to regrind.
Speaking of that, Iām not sure if itās just me noticing but people who are against resets usually argue that resets go against the game design because the game encourages having multiple characters. Thats definitely true - albeit too idealist in thinking- and itās a very common feature in other mmos as well. Besides, who doesnt want to be able to play different roles? Weāre in an MMORPG after all.
Iād like to point out that the game design actually ALLOWS or balances advantages that any form circle resets may bring. Like you (and tons of other anti-reset pepople) have said, the game rewards players for having multiple characters via team level bonus, more (rush) dungeon runs, net silver farmed while leveling, etcā¦ If a player, for whatever purpose or reason, decides to reset instead of making a new character, he actually forfeits himself from these benefits. In other words,
I think those who oppose having any form of class resets are right to be worried about players not being encouraged to make new characters and I definitely agree. But with the current state of the game, the rewards arenāt worth the effort put into a very repetitive gameplay. So, as Iāve been saying in my previous posts, I am for class reset but with some reservations and of course depending if the price and mechanics of the game and of the class reset justifies whatever repercussions it may bring to the entire gameplay.
tl;dr - class reset should be at a reasonable price but first improve class diversity and better rewards for having multiple high-leveled characters.
In most games class is just a skill build + ability to equip a class-specific weapon (optional) or a class-specific companion. TOS have more classes and less skills inside every class, but is it enough co call classes just a parts of your skill build? I cannot agree with this.
You didnāt specify how they will be restricted, thus I cannot answer.
To have a bigger e-peen? Well, maybe this is important, Iām not sure.
@tonyostark
A game where rewards from leveling will be comparable to benefits of resetting? Interesting, but it seems extremely hard to do so.
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my myā¦, yāknow sometimes i hate your posts but thank god weāre on the same side on this thread anyways, im tired of discussing why resets should be allowed in this game and i really dont care if it comes anymore, iāll just play along and do what i want after we have all the ranks implemented and my buildās ā ā ā ā ā ā up or what i was expecting wasnāt met or get bored with it iāll just quit this game and find something else thatās worth my time.
an example atm is my 2 shinobis both are out of rank 8 synergies as both are dual wielding / corsair2 ranks well murmillo had changes and can be a good choice but still no for murmillo is a shield dps rank and my 2 shinobis are dual wielders (spear/sword,dagger). thus this puts me to choose my r8 choices to the lower ranks which is great? rofl.
uhmā¦ thank you? which posts? you mean posts in this particular thread or other posts in general? the troll posts or the lengthy boring stuff? lol
Iāve realized the reason discussions become tiring is when ego is placed before reason. thereās no point in arguing when both parties donāt keep an open mind.
This is so true. Too many players, both in the pro-reset and anti-reset are rather close minded and just want things their way.
well nothing good comes easy.
though seriously, weāre at a pretty decent start when it comes to this aspect but still very very far from it. We got team level exp and limited dungeon runs but I think even the most hardcore of players will get tired creating so many alts or running too many dungeons for the oh-so-precious talt before fully enjoying these rewards. (I have two alts and Iāve already gotten tired of running for talts)
i dont think itās as difficult as how you imagine it to be. if theyāre not that creative, they could just add some other forms of bonus for having high team exp on top of the exp bonus (some examples i can think of from most trivial to essential: weight limit, stamina, stats, movespeed, silver from monsters, movespeed, refine rate bonus, access to gears or instances).
The team level system has so much potential but I think that shouldnāt be the priority just yet. The game has yet to make good on their promise of limitless character customization via a myriad of class choices. Right now, all I see are four different classes with different skills playing 3-5 roles in an unrewarding end-game content. But whatever, the game is still in beta and we can only ask for so much, right?
Is the game so bad now that people have to necro months old thread about resets? Thatās supposed to be my job! Too bad I quit like months ago after Mr. Kim came out and cried like a baby on the forums.
Guessing people didnāt do enough research on their builds and old forum posts. 
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nice poem. very moving.
Itās really nice to see haukinyau post when the discussion gets too serious and too tl;dr. Threads could always use a class clown like him to lighten up the mood and kids could always use someone they can relate to cause adults can be too boring with their tl;dr posts sometimes. keep it up 
In Granado Espada, Team Level gave you a slight bonus to your stats. So it was useful for even those who had max level characters and encouraged people to roll up alternate characters even if that person liked sticking to just one character because it would power up that one character (well, more like āthree charactersā since you control three characters at a time in that game)
Extra dungeon runs is kinda meaningless at the highest points of end game because the highest end gear and gear-upgrade (transcendence) materials are untradeable and un-bank-shareable. The vast majority of the player base hasnāt reached that point yet but for those that do, itās yet another aspect of alts in ToS that could have had meaning but didnāt because IMC decided to be jerks about the end-game.
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