NO Job reset PLEASE!

[atari]

Well, part of these forums call me a white knight while another part call me a hater. But there are also reasonable people here. Not many however.

[Diode]

optimal

And players will change their skill builds with it. You can’t force players to play something they don’t like. Many have quit due to this. In any successful MMO players are allowed to do so. And if you tell me to go play those then u r pretty much telling tos it can go die. Deal with it.[quote=“atari, post:603, topic:232755”]
10-20 players
[/quote]
This is won’t work at all if you really put some thought into it. It is hard to even find 5 play parties with the way tos is heading let alone 10-20. And without resets people will constantly reroll(and quit) spreading out the end game player base even thinner. [quote=“atari, post:603, topic:232755”]
reasons for other
[/quote]
Like I said earlier resets will prevent more from quiting than it will from making people quit. Game become to easy? Limit the use.[quote=“atari, post:603, topic:232755”]
buying EXP cards is fun
[/quote]
Wow. There you go again telling people what is fun. If you don’t see the difference between buying your way there vs already putting in the work and wanting wanting a way out if you aren’t satisfied with the end result I don’t know what to say.

And also to those people saying you should have done your research. Even if people research into a build and thinks the build is right for them it may not turn out that way once they actually play it for themselves. Reading about a build and watching videos of others playing it is not the same as playing it yourself. Saying oh boo hoo so sad remake b!tch is not the answer. It will only drive people away

[kurayami1234]

All those “no reset” callers will try to back out of that statement once their builds are screwed by skill changes not even oracles could forsee.

Thats not a warning. Its a Prophecy.

[pedrothin2]

Arealdy happened. Thats why I have 11 characters.
Have you played closed beta where it was tree of barbarians?
Made a shitty barb and had to reroll, and was not happy with my other char and rerolled again, currently leveling my 12th char (gonna be scout c3), as its only level 145 i’ll not count with him for now.

[Nizael]

Ok just implement a way to reroll without
Create new char -> level up again.

[chillcross]

I dunno, people started to jump off the cliff when they saw Guardian’s percentile changes. They couldn’t forsee a change within a change, and wasted their characters in outrage only to have it fixed quickly.

This stage of the game is 100% all about patience. I don’t think things will ever be balanced, but every build will have it’s random day. PyroChrono’s were laughed at because their contribution being neither DPS or FS, but Sage’s introduction heavily boosted this progression simply because it’s a decent support at C1 that also boost’s Pyro’s capabilities. They aren’t meta, but they’re quite viable and decent off.

Now if only rerolling wasn’t the same process over and over to inspire insanity, it may actually be semi entertaining. I wouldn’t mind if there was more prominent killing areas throughout the game or even zones that specifically gave much higher EXP but had no quests.

[atari]

And players will change their skill builds with it.

Or with rolling a new char. It’s all about the amount of time spent. And
class reset will allow to decrease it significantly.

It is hard to even find 5 play parties with the way tos is heading let alone 10-20.

The way you think, only solo builds will be viable 1 year later. There is no reason to play such game.

Like I said earlier resets will prevent more from quiting than it will from making people quit

Reliable sources again.

There you go again telling people what is fun.

I’m telling what’s not fun. Buying character levels for cash is not fun.

Reading about a build and watching videos of others playing it is not the same as playing it yourself.

I’d like to see x1000 test sever or server with everything available from the beginning.

All those “no reset” callers will try to back out of that statement once their builds are screwed by skill changes not even oracles could forsee.

Let’s see, I have:

• wiz3->ele3->[class lv15, waiting for future ranks]
• arc2->ran3->falc->[almost scout, then mergen]
• wiz3->lin->sor->alc2 (briquetting/awakening)
• cle2->pri3->par2 (my shop)
• wiz3->lin->sor->nec->[sor or nec. class lv15 but cannot decide]

Still don’t feel screwed ¯_(ツ)_/¯. Just tried to use something more “futureproof” or already nerfed/buffed?

[Diode]

Or with rolling a new char. It’s all about the amount of time spent. And class reset will allow to decrease it significantly.

You are not getting it. People will reroll so many times before they quit. All about time spent? Look around, TOS in it’s current state cannot maintain its player base for sh!t. Having people reroll over and over will not make them spend more time in the game it will drive them away.

The way you think, only solo builds will be viable 1 year later. There is no reason to play such game.

The way I think is to compare the direction TOS is heading to were it wants to be. The way I think is to get this game to a state in which both solo and group builds will be viable(due to having the population to support it). Of course, If TOS magically gains population and we are able to have 10-20 player parties that is great, but that’s not reality. The way YOU think on the other hand is “ya even though TOS is dying we will still have 10-20 player parties just because I said so”.

Reliable sources again.

Again common sense. Saying oh boo hoo so sad remake b!tch will drive more away than introducing restricted resets. [quote=“atari, post:614, topic:232755”]
I’m telling what’s not fun. Buying character levels for cash is not fun.
[/quote]

And yet again you didn’t buy any levels. It’s clear “you don’t see the difference between buying your way there vs already putting in the work and wanting a way out if you aren’t satisfied with the end result”

And again and again, you’re not changing from a swordman to a wizard. You’re changing wizard to another wizard. [quote=“atari, post:614, topic:232755”]
I’d like to see x1000 test sever or server with everything available from the beginning.
[/quote]

Yup and this confirms it, You have not a clue between “everything available from the beginning.” vs “already put in the work for something but is unsatisfied with the end result”’

[xinronyr]

Objectively speaking, there are 2 “cons” to class resets being implemented.

1. If players have the option to reset, depending on how the reset is implemented, it can potentially have an effect on lower-level dungeon queues.
2. Player’s can change class tree from an easy one to level to a difficult one to level.

These “cons” are not really game-breaking.

The first “con” is an Objective observation, but still revolves around guess. The queues for low-level dungeons might even improve if the number of players interested in the game increases and the returning players who can change their builds decide to invest time into alts so they can do more dungeon runs and get talts/gear for their mains.

The second “con” is also silly, considering how easy it is to level in this game. With the map exploration, monster quests, Missions, dailies, new quests, etc added since iCBT2, getting to 200 is fairly simple even for “slow” builds, and with R8 and new maps coming it will be easy to get to R7-R8 faster (+12 million per exp card… ridiculous). At worst, the difference between the absolute fastest leveling build and absolute slowest would be about 5-6 days.

It’s actually more of an advantage to roll a new character while keeping the old one to take advantage of additional instance runs per day for more talt, chances for gear and monster cards, team level exp, and to be able to play a different build without having to pay/invest into the reset feature if it was implemented.

The amount of “harm” a Reset feature would implement is pretty much non-existent when looking at the “cons” of having a reset implementation Objectively and the incentives for making a new character.

So why not implement the Reset feature? Having a reset implementation would vastly improve player retention, even if major changes to classes are done. Having a reset feature would encourage players who value their characters to keep playing without feeling hopeless if the value of their character(s) has changed in a way that seems negative.

I can’t help but think that the “hardcore” players that think resets shouldn’t exist just don’t want a high population for ToS so they can have higher chances of getting competitive items with low drop rates or DPK exclusive. That’s an assumption, so it really has no basis, but I seriously can’t help but wonder exactly why other people having the option to reset is harmful to the hardcore players’ gameplay in any way.

[atari]

Having people reroll over and over will not make them spend more time in the game it will drive them away.

Reliable sources. This will give them a reason to grind.

The way YOU think on the other hand is “ya even though TOS is dying we will still have 10-20 player parties just because I said so”.

I think that you have a good imagination. You completely ignored my point about weapons which was just one of two examples and took the most convenient for you.
A game where you cannot gather a 10-20 players party is a damn singleplayer (current TOS state for non-SEA servers) this may change however with advertising, bug fixes, anticheat, etc.

And yet again you didn’t buy any levels.

You bought the time needed for re-leveling. And you cannot see the similarity.

Again common sense.

My common sense is bigger and longer than yours. “Boo hoo I can skip making a new char with cash.” This will drive more away than having no resets.

And again and again, you’re not changing from a swordman to a wizard. You’re changing wizard to another wizard.

Why not change from a swordie to a wizard? You are not changing to a GM class anyway.

Yup and this confirms it, You have not a clue between “everything available from the beginning.” vs “already put in the work for something but is unsatisfied with the end result”’

You missed my point. I really like the idea of a test server where you can try everything.

[evrencp]

Is there a dislike button around here?

[Gringe]

Oh god not this again.

[Arkova]

Yes, this again. Why have natural progression when you can have a watered down class sim in-game instead?

[jchang10931]

Yes, this again. Why have natural progression when you can have a watered down class sim.

Class sim is the 2nd funnest part of ToS now. You can reset all you want playing with skill builders with that and don’t have to do stupid things like pick flowers for npcs.

First place most fun part of ToS is forum activity.

[Diode]

Reliable sources. This will give them a reason to grind.

Its a FACT that TOS cannot retain its player base. It is human nature that if you do the same sh!t over and over again you will get bored. Thus, playing the same r1-7 content over and over again will drive people away.[quote=“atari, post:617, topic:232755”]
You completely ignored my point about weapons which was just one of two examples and took the most convenient for you.
[/quote]

What point about weapons? I don’t recall you making any relevant point about weapons. That one where you said GM’s selling +20 weapon? That’s not even a point. No one asked for it that. [quote=“atari, post:617, topic:232755”]
You bought the time needed for re-leveling
[/quote]

You already spent the time. But fine ill agree to disagree on this one.[quote=“atari, post:617, topic:232755”]
My common sense is bigger and longer than yours. “Boo hoo I can skip making a new char with cash.” This will drive more away than having no resets.
[/quote]

Your common sense is out of whack from the way you apply logic.

1. Allowing resets will mean allowing +20 weapons to be sold?
2. NO reset means diversity even though meta builds are currently the most popular even without resets?
3. People want a way to opt out of a build they don’t enjoy and you equate that with wanting to change to a completely new class or even into a GM?
4. Reset is P2W even though it doesn’t make you any stronger even if you spent your whole life saving on it? Buying +20 weapons is P2W fyi.
5. Keeps thinking your own personal achievements of grinding out levels won’t be a personal achievements anymore if others can reset? So Usain Bolts didn’t achieve sh!t because I have a car?
6. Worried about people resetting at will so I say an easy solution is to limit the use and your reply is “Don’t implement it. Even easier.”?.
7. Telling people to 'have fun" with their build till r10 comes out even though the reason people want to reset is because they are NOT having fun?
8. I tell you only way of getting rid of meta builds is to balance all the builds to be viable and you list me 2 metas builds implying if these two are balanced than everything else is balanced?
9. Not realizing its human nature to want the most efficient ways of doing things hence will gravitate towards what is “optimal” regardless?
10. Thinks that when new content comes out after r10 there will be no more new ranks, skills, or even changes to r10 skills to make them stronger? Not a single game introduced new content that doesn’t include more character progression.
11. Don’t understand that people don’t like doing same sh!t over and over? Think this will make them stay longer?

[Diode]

You missed my point. I really like the idea of a test server where you can try everything.

oh one more thing.
12. So you want people to have test servers and remake their character over and over in a random private server to get the right build before coming to play the offical TOS? You rather have players spend time testing sh!t in private servers and bring their builds to TOS AFTER they have perfected it then to have TOS make the money from resets?

[tonyostark]

Its good some people can keep an open mind when everybody just straight says no without any acceptable rationale

Although imo, your suggested version of reset is still a bit generous, unless they make the price very high enough that it would still make rerolling to another character a slightly better option. I’m thinking about making it accessible to 10-30% of the population (consisting mostly of those who’d make more money with the time needed it requires to reroll another character) That would actually still favor those who are strongly against resets since it seems their most common argument is that it takes grinding out of the equation (as if that is the very goal in this game itself)

[atari]

It is human nature that if you do the same sh!t over and over again you will get bored.

At this rate all grindy games should be already dead.

What point about weapons? I don’t recall you making any relevant point about weapons. That one where you said GM’s selling +20 weapon?

Or new equip.

NO reset means diversity even though meta builds are currently the most popular even without resets?

You will need to actually play the game and level a new char to have another build. Having 2 chars with different builds seems more diverse than switching to me.

People want a way to opt out of a build they don’t enjoy and you equate that with wanting to change to a completely new class

Class reset = changing classes. You are just trying to make more conveient definitions.

Reset is P2W even though it doesn’t make you any stronger even if you spent your whole life saving on it?

EXP cards. You won’t become stronger than a player making a new char and grinding for EXP.

Keeps thinking your own personal achievements of grinding out levels won’t be a personal achievements anymore if others can reset?

Yes. No thinking required, just reset.

Worried about people resetting at will so I say an easy solution is to limit the use and your reply is “Don’t implement it. Even easier.”?.

But they won’t reset for in this case for sure. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Telling people to 'have fun" with their build till r10 comes out even though the reason people want to reset is because they are NOT having fun?

No pity for people who cannot make a well-thought build or trying to always be on the top with the constantly changing meta of this unfinished game.

Not realizing its human nature to want the most efficient ways of doing things hence will gravitate towards what is “optimal” regardless?

I realize it.

or even changes to r10 skills to make them stronger

Let me agree with this. But I don’t see any problems with something like cards/equip amplifying your skills.

Not a single game introduced new content that doesn’t include more character progression.

Let me disagree with the rest. How many patches with new maps and stuff had pre-renewal RO?

Don’t understand that people don’t like doing same sh!t over and over?

At this rate all grindy games should be already dead.

private server

You have a good imagination. Test server = private server huh?

spend time

x10000 then or whatever you like.

make the money from resets?

Best argument ever. Why not to make money from +20 weapons and EXP cards then?

[tonyostark]

Why not to make money from +20 weapons and EXP cards then?

Why would resets be even comparable to gears? Youll still need to grind for gears with reset and those who have more time to play clearly still have an edge over those who can merely afford to grind for gears.

[haukinyau]

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