Tree of Savior Forum

New SP Usage is Insane

General Discussion
#63

Kinda funny how the Koreans whined about the loss of Pre-emptive, and with it back it’s arguably not worth much more than the novelty.

I haven’t really run into much Mana problems either, aside from classes that just devour SP regardless. I do think Pre-emptive needs either an SP downgrade or a damage boost to justify the playstyle, and Dragoon helmet seems to be a more burst-rotation toggle rather than a toggle you want to keep on constantly.

I think it just requires a change in thought. While I liked investing in old SPR for mana regen for the hungriest of classes (see Fencer, etc.), you needed things to speed up the interval because while I did get like 200~300 SPR, it was only after 20 seconds and was really gimmicky. It was only really valuable on classes that were buff trains and didn’t use mana much for their damage, like Chaplain based builds. I don’t think the game just wants you to hit your keyboard. Hell, some of the attributes people have on do increase the mana drain as well, and that should very well be considered for certain pools.

The only thing I find odd is how they took it away from Kabbalist. I’d just rather multiple ways rather than a reshift onto the more neglected classes, but perhaps this was IMC’s way of making more dead and forgotten classes more relevant.

#64

It works in battle, but you needed something like 800+ regen to notice the recovery. I think the recovery interval is too high. Now that we have lower regen, the interval could be reduced.

Overall I don’t think the mana issue is the biggest problem, we can deal with that, and players will adapt.

Re:Build was clearly an attempt to bring more players to the game, since the class system was complicated and punishing for new players. I had a bunch of friends who downloaded the game, but could not decide which classes to pick and gave up before even starting to play.

Re:Build solves this issue, but the skill system is still a problem. Players can’t know how a skill performs (interactions, animation, hitbox,…) without spending permanent points in it. When the reset event ends, it’ll be much harder to test things since you can’t easily reset skill points. Mana usage is now tied to how you use your skills, and it’s hard to create a good skill combination blindly in your first try.

Re:Build solved only half those problems. I think new players should have easier access to class change points than higher level players, and skill resets should be available through in-game mechanics. They could include dropable consumbables that would provide you the ability to recover 1 skill point for a selected skill (similar to Path of Exile), with a drop rate a bit higher than golden anvils. So players could invest 1 point to test a skill, and if it’s not that enjoyable, you can retrieve that point back to tune your build with personal choices, instead of following online builds.

Indirectly it also affects the SP usage, because you could theorycraft the best combinations of skills for the mana consumption (like old World of Warcraft with spell ranks), without depending on cash/event resets.

#65

i member before re build my archer could exist with just low level SP pots… now he needs to drink the big ones constantly…

and OMG they went up in price by like 5x … also no idea how to farm silver in this game… items doesnt seem to be worth at lot now

#66

Firstly I would recommend using a 2h spear for goon skills since that will net you a higher base attack rate. Enhancing it to +6 is an easy way to get some more damage with minimal investment, so you should always do that even if you plan to replace the item. Make your weapon slot 1 the 2h hander, and put your 1 hand spear on the 2nd slot for rete skills and the game will auto swap to the 1 hander when you use a rete skill.

I think that Pull Rete is better for mobbing and challenge modes since it gathers all the mobs together neatly. Throw Rete is better for bosses as long as you have the attributes.

It sounds like you have the right idea with skills. For swordie you want to have a tight rotation that results in the max damage from your skills. I would recommend getting used to using SP potions on rotation, since you will have glass mole cards later on to boost your damage every time you use an SP potion.

Making an alchemist with 15 tincture is easier than ever now, you can get wizard to 15 and then go straight to alchemist for your 1st class, from there you can make 15 condensed SP potions in a cheap manner. You should never run out of SP if you using 15 condensed on a rotation. The mats are super cheap. (1 uosis and mats you buy from the alchy master, that makes 5 pots).

1 Like
#67

I had a Primus Reine Pike sitting on my inv, I enchanted both of the spears to +6 now, will try using that. I was using the 1h one mostly due to concerns to survivability, but I guess the best defense is a good offense.

Yeah, I’m really considering rebuilding my Wiz into some sort of Alc build, since not only will I be able to get SP pots for all my characters, I’ll also have less problems with the wiz itself until I can get my hands on some funding. I’m just reading on some classes and theorycrafting what combination I can make it on, and waiting to get the class reset again, since I reseted it this morning to test a build I was thinking about.
Thanks for the advice, I’m currently leveling in Neighport East Church, and it’s going smoother than Cranto, so maybe rethinking some of the leveling areas may be a good idea as well.

#68

Monster HP has been reduced. Their atk was buffed, but HP was reduced/drastically reduced in some cases (like Baubas Cave). The only exceptions are Dungeons, Raids and Saalus, party content.

I don’t want to argue, btw. I’m here just to fix the comment!

1 Like
#69

Really? Then it’s even weirder that both my characters are having a harder time to kill monsters now then. Maybe it’s the AoE attack/defense ratio changes that’s making it seem harder to kill packs of mobs, and I don’t know if they did change it, but it feels like attacks are missing/being blocked more often as well. Anyway, thanks for pointing it out, and sorry for the misinformation/misunderstanding.

#70

Yes, AOE atk/def has changed. Now, everytime you atk more than one mob, the AOE Def that is used as base is the highest between the monsters in range!

1- And now magick atk can be blocked/miss the target!

1 Like
#71

That’s probably the reason then, as usually monsters with high AoE defense ratio also have more hp and defenses than monsters with low AoE defense ratio form what I’ve experienced (Examples are Harugals in Demon Prison, or the crab things in Cranto).

#72

That’s probably because you no longer get 3000+ damage from Pardoners Blessing.

If you really tried it with a weapon and pure skill damage, a lot of Classes had a really hard time to deal with Cranto Coast monsters before Re:build.

1 Like
#73

That actually does make sense, as I didn’t get to Cranto on my Swordie before, and I didn’t even need Pardoner’s buffs on my Wiz at that point, since Fireball was 2-shotting mobs without anything but Enchant Fire.

#74

Someone knows if buffs that require weapon/subweapon X still dissapear when you autoswap to weapon Y?
This question is mostly related to swordman tree since it have load of weapon types and restrictions to some buffs. Thereticaly they opened “many combinations” but still lock you with weapons. If at least buff persist its not bad, still upgrading 2 weapons sets to play freely sems odd for a RPG, especialy such grindy one.

#75

SP recovery occurs every 20 seconds, even if you’re in battle. Raising your SP Recovery stat will increase the amount of SP you receive.

If you are sitting, you get SP every 10 seconds, and if you near a bonfire while sitting, you receive some of your SP Recovery every 2 seconds in addition to the 10 second timer.

Class skills like Sorcerer’s Summon Servant, Dievdirbys’ Statue of Goddess Zemyna, and Squire’s Yogurt substantially reduce these timers and cause you to receive the SP recovery more often, which compounds on top of a decent SP recovery stat to easily achieve near or infinite SP.

You can also combine these buffs to reduce the SP recovery timer down to a minimum of 1 second, causing you to receive SP regeneration every single second, which will counteract even powerful drains such as Dragoon’s helmet.

As far as I know, they don’t disappear, but this is second hand information.

All monster HP was reduced, yes. The only exception is Saalus, which was intentionally made harder due to its rewards and how trivial it was.

Lastly, the only other comment I want to make is that some people are complaining about doing low damage or monsters being HP sponges. As I have stated before, they intentionally changed the growth of equipment items up and on the way to higher levels. Before the update, getting a new weapon at lower levels was an extremely minor stat increase in either defense or attack and most people would simply use a low level weapon for many levels, skipping out on getting new equipment.

With Re:Build, the curve was adjusted, so every new higher level weapon and armor provides a noticeable gain to attack and defense, and these make a big difference. Getting new items is not pointless, and even just using some quick anvils on an item you plan to use to fight is not a bad idea.

All of this, on top of the fact that Pardoner buffs were significantly nerfed to not simply carry you to max level with invincibility and one shotting monsters, can result in what seems to be a more difficult leveling experience… but just paying attention to your equipment and skills a bit more will make it just as easy as before. For my own personal experience, I was able to 2 man a Demon Prison 2 Challenge Mode to stage 5 with less than 4 minutes spend on each stage. It would’ve been trivial with an entire party.

#76

We either need to get SP cost reduction with some kind of attribute or make the mana consumption pots more accessible for everyone.

SP cost is a little out of hand.

#77

SP pots are more accesible to everyone, all you need to go is get a wizard to class 15, make an alchemist and get that to class 15, and max tincturing.

grats now you can make SP pots for ~ 99 silver a pot

#78

Or buy different Potions from the consumable vendor and use them in between each others cooldown.

It’s also best not to use your sp Potions when you’re close to 0% sp but rather when you’re around 50% sp to maximize the recovery effect during Potion cooldowns.

#79

99 silver a pot? Are you also assuming that people are actually selling uosis on the market, aren’t overpricing it, and furthermore are spending time actually farming it?

Uosis only drops on a few maps, low-ish lv maps without a whole lot else going on for them. You usually actually need to commit a play session sometimes to just grinding out Uosis, and doing that efficiently often requires a farming character to be made first for best results.

So I really do think they could be a little more accessible. At least they could add Uosis to drop tables in a larger range of maps. Or better, allow us to plant Uosis in the guild hall like Dilgele.

#80

Rasvoy Lake has easy to kill monsters that have a 50% drop rate of uosis, it is ridiculously easy to farm.

With a link - thauma scout you can farm with double drops and get 200 uosis in less than 30 mins and that is 1000 pots

There really is no excuse for having a lack of SP.

1 Like
#81

That’s still 30 minutes I have to dedicate to farming in order to get just 1000 pots, and you’re also forgetting the crafting time, which will take even longer.

Some players can make time to do that, like me as an alchemist player, but that should be an exception to the norm. I spend my play time to make those pots for other people so I can get money and save them time. That’s not the same as ‘sp pots are accessible to everyone’

Also, at the rate SP pots are currently being consumed, I go through 25 of them easily in one 10 minute farming session on my thaumaturge. Trying to take more limits the amount of weight on my character and hinders my efficiency. 1000 SP potions is peanuts for someone who has a whole bunch of alts. Craft queue breaking still hasn’t been fixed either and trying to install an addon for it breaks the game right now.

Stop being absurd. These claims about SP drain being out of hand are due to tedium and inconvenience. Asking someone to take even more inconvenience to solve an inconvenience isn’t a solution to the problem.

There is no excuse for IMC not allowing alchemists to grow other herbs in the guild hall. Or better yet, why can’t we grow them in our new ‘workshop’ ui? It sure would be a whole lot more useful than what it’s used for right now.

2 Likes
#82

People should have the option to craft their own potions, not be forced to it. Games should work in a way people can play it they way they like the most. Most of us here have to work and have little to no time to play, it’s not cool at all to spend our time farming to be able to craft potions to only then be able to play a class we enjoy…

3 Likes