I agree with most of the sentiments, the SP usage, especially for classes like Dragoons and Falconers, is too high.
I don’t need SP to be removed, it serves a purpose in the form of:
Silver sink and economic source (especially in the sense that the economic side could be expanded upon)
Mechanic that can be used, SP drains and counter to SP drains as well as effects that proc off it, like Glass Moles/Chaps
Basic management skill, while I don’t think it should be used as a hard limit, you do still have to pay attention
But reducing SP usage should be done. SP usage could even be reduced based on Enhance attribute levels if they want to make it more of an incentive to invest (or doing a combination of both).
This is unfortunately a major blow for RE:BUILD for me. I was considering playing this game again with a friend, and she…hated SP pot reliances. Utterly. I used to have Kabbalist in my build to help with this, the full SP refill was good.
Mana management was one of the more boring aspects of Diablolikes, to the point that the better evolutions of that (Path of Exile) removed them almost entirely and gave ways for fast regen. Playing a market minigame there is bad. Shame, Re:Build does have good aspects, but this thing here just adds tedium for my friend, to the point she considers Re:Build just not fun. And to be honest, I kinda agree.
get as much Sp regeneration boni as you can (e.g. item awakening)
use Squire refreshment table Sandwich & Yoghurt
= rarely run out of SP as long as the foods last
The major problem of people seems to be that they don’t have enough innate SP recovery because they lack max SP (of which 3% are your base SP recovery in Re:build) and SP recovery boni (e.g. collections, cards, item stats, item awakenings,titles) that make Yoghurt and Sandwich so powerful.
By the way, I don’t think it’s so bad, considering in e.g. boss fights you ought to be doing something like evading attacks actively every few seconds, so your general use will decrease.
My biggest thing here is it just doesnt feel like they balanced it correctly.
Sp recovery going down wouldnt be such huge thing if it didn’t feel like you’d be utterly starved of it without potions. Not even “Smart play” fixes this. I’m running a Chaplain Druid combo (only level 230) and even with just refreshing my 2/3 buffs and casting only sterea troph I’m still at a huge defecit in terms of sp gain and run out way quicker than should be reasonable. Casting a single spell every 20-30 seconds and refreshing 2 buffs every 8 minutes should not outpace natural sp regen
I get it’s to put a bit of a bigger emphasis on other classes that can help with sp management (squire, alchemist, etc.), but I feel like the strength of that kind of utility should make players feel like they are stronger, not make players feel like they are patching up a shortcoming.
Also this one is just a personal grievance, but werewolf form costing 3 percent of sp every second yet having such a long cooldown means it is very likely you will have to drop the transformation early and be stuck waiting for your next opportunity to get back in. I would love it if it didnt have the global cd but instead put it on a set 15 second cd if you ended the skill early. This is really only a personal issue for me though since I wanted to try a WW/lycan human build
Its just absurd to expect players to respec their hair accessory’s to sp recovery, swap their purple cards from gazing golem to rikaus or elemental return cards like specter monarch or throneweaver, re-awaken all their armor for sp recovery, drop or find new armor with rolled sp recovery, pull a squire slave out of their behind to provide constant yogurt table, and oh ya, carry multiple stacks of different sp pots JUST TO BE ABLE TO PLAY.
Crevox was trying to tell people to “gitgud” with this nonsense earlier in shout, he called it “strategic planning”, um no, I think its outrageous that we have to go to this extent to farm in a game where the only thing there is to do is farm.
Im running a new monster card lineup atm and trying to conserve SP in rotations but thats as far as im going, already rolled a lowbie alchemist to make my own SP Pots since im basically using them off cooldown now.
I feel the same way. Just came back to the game short before Re:build and really enjoyed my Schwarzer Reiter. Altough I like the changes to the Class system etc. the SP regen is a huge bummer.
I run out of mana after each pack of mobs with Lima/Retreat Shot (in addition to the fact that the hit limit on Retreat Shot and buff of monsters makes it already much slower to kill those packs).
I’m not max level so stacking SP gear / awakening doesn’t seem to be a viable option. In general this feels very punishing for new players that don’t have/can’t afford highly tuned gear or 3-5k per potion every 15 sec.
BulletMarker really helps with conserving SP during the leveling process, at least in the Scout tree. I switched from SR to BM and have a noticeably more enjoyable leveling experience. For now, I’m using BM > Linker > Thaum to make the most out of leveling up and it’s, so far, the only one of my characters that I don’t blow through 200 SP potions in 30 minutes.
It is quite a perk that we’ll be able to change our classes regularly, even after the events have ended. There are certainly going to be a variety of “leveling” builds versus “endgame” builds now with SP management being a key point.
The key thing the people defending the way SP now works are missing is the impact on new/newer players.
I for example started playing last week, and leveled a Wizard to 315 and a Swordsman to 200. Then Re:Build came along, the whole day yesterday I managed to get my Wizard up a whooping whole level, and my Swordsman 2 (Yay! =/). The problems affecting me (And most likely most new players) are SP consumption is too high, SP recovery is too low, damage from monster is way higher and damage in relation to monsters HP is also low (I say that, because my damage numbers on both characters are higher, but the HP they take off monsters is pretty lower). Now as an example, when my Wizard was 202 before Re:Build I went to Cranto Coast to level, and was able to 2 shot everything there (With the rookie event weapon and accessories), while now after Re:Build, once my Swordsman hit 202 I went to Cranto, only to not be able to kill 3-4 mobs without using all my SP twice and lose pretty much all my HP, making leveling in Cranto not possible (More specifically, not viable, as I take about 3 minutes to kill those 3-4 mobs, plus 4-5 minutes to recover afterwards), which made me decide to go back and do quests (Which I absolute loathe, never got into WoW because of that) just so I could see if I can make some progress on that character.
Now, difficulty is one thing, let`s say, if SP management was something to plan ahead in terms of rotations (ARPG style), or if planning out gear to get SP recovery was accessible but a clear tradeoff (The armor of my Wizard had a bunch of SPR, all cheap stuff bought on market). While anti-convenience (Artificial difficulty) is another entirely, like draining your whole SP pool to get about half as much done as you did previously on AAs in about the same time (My Swordsman case), or making so you need to spend 200-300 SP pots to level through a certain level range while only making enough money to buy back 50-80 of the same pots.
Not really shout, but I did look for a party in cranto, was empty on my server at the time I went there. The thing is, at least on my server, IDK how it is on other servers, people don’t form parties to go to grind spots unless it’s a premade (with friends and such), they usually go to the spots and if there are people there, they either ask to join the already existing party, or form one. Maybe eventually this mentality will shift with the new challenges brought by Re:Build, but who knows
Did a bunch of farming on linker - thauma - sin yesterday, used about the same number of SP pots pre rebuild as I did post rebuild, maybe less.
What I am getting from this, is that people are specing into trees with 3000 active skills, spamming them all, and wondering why they are constantly out of SP.
People need to specialize in less skills (put 15 points in one, instead of 5 points in three), and use them when needed, not just willy-nilly. When fighting most low level monsters, auto attacks are fine.
The consumption itself is not the issue, but how we recover mana could be a lot better. Instead of overpriced and bad SP potions, NPCs could sell food that would recover a good ammount of mana over time.
I like the bonfire concept, but right now it’s just better to keep killing monsters and use sp potions. Bonfires should be used while in combat/stand still, and reduce the recovery time to 5 seconds. People will always move from room to room, so sitting for a bonfire is a waste of time.
Or the whole mana regen could be based on the mp5 concept, and leave bonfires as it’s now increasing it’s health recovery rate.
The game already has some good mechanics that could be used to solve this issue while keeping the player engaged to use those recovery mechanics. But knowing how IMC works, they’ll probably create complicated and uncanny changes to solve this in 4 months from now, while introducing some unexpected way for endless mana recovery.
There are tons of ways you can deal with SP consumption if you want to mitigate it.
-Identified equipment can get SP recovery and SP as stats.
-There are many different cards to help with it. There are red cards that restore SP, there are multiple purple cards that buff SP potions, grant SP recovery, give maximum SP, etc…
-Hair accessories can roll large amounts of SP recovery stat on them.
-All armor and accessories can get awakenings for large amounts of SP recovery on them.
-There are multiple classes that make it way easier to maintain SP (Sorcerer, Oracle, Dievsdirby for example) including a 30 minute buff you can get (yogurt from squire).
-There is equipment that just comes with SP and SP recovery, even without being random stats.
-Bonfires restore SP very quickly, and you can even cook fish over them for more SP recovery.
-The Battlebird pet gives a large amount of the SP recovery stat.
-If all else fails, you can use three different types of potions as they are all on separate cooldowns (alchemist potions, SP potions from town merchants, keistas/dimensional potions) and you can get large quantities of the second two for free by just running Uphill Defense and/or Remnants of Bernice.
These are just some examples off the top of my head. If you use even 1 or 2 of these your SP problems will cut down a lot.
For classes like Dragoon and Falconer, you’re not intended to and should not keep your toggle-able SP drains on 100% of the time. I play a Sorcerer and deal with the Overwork attribute (which constantly drains large amounts of SP) with no issues. If I even had issues, there are so many things I could do about it that it’s not even a concern.
I also tried leveling two entirely new characters (Exorcist and Druid) and had zero SP issues… they are over level 150 now and still have over 200 SP potions they got for free from just the main story quests, and I skipped so many of the quests. Druid even has ANOTHER SP drain mechanic in the form of Lycanthropy and it’s going just fine.
People also can find parties to grind with or level with. A simple shout helps a lot. You guys don’t have to solo everything specifically if it’s making you frustrated. It’s ok to ask for help guys, it’s a MMO let’s not forget that.
That would be awesome, if my Swordsman (Dragoon) AAs weren’t hitting for so little damage it was laughable, and my Wizard didn’t have to use a combo of skills to mob without dying (Gravity from Kino, Tree from onmyoji, then an actual damaging AoE to kill), all on mobs that should be killable at their respective levels, the “low level monsters”.
You sir, are approaching this the right way, by giving actual constructive advice with no pre-conception of how others are playing. But unfortunately, with the exception of some of the potions, most of those options aren’t exactly new player friendly, and either require some amount of money, or other players, when in reality you won’t always have a party.
Now, the whole SP thing wouldn’t be so bad if moster didn’t receive a hug buff to both damage and HP, that is way out of proportion in relation to players numbers, more specifically non Geared/Funded players. The problem isn’t exactly that I have to manage my SP after using a certain number of skills, it’s the fact that I run out SP and even HP before I can kill a group of mobs.
Right now I’m currently in the proccess of trying some areas other than the ones recommended in pretty much every leveling guide, as I quite literally couldn’t stand doing quests for more than 30 minutes on my Dragoon. Still just walking around trying to get to some appropriate level areas though.
I play swordie as well as a main so maybe i can help, how are your dragoon skills allocated? Did you max out certain skills or do you have points in everything? In general it shouldn’t take more than 1 skill use to kill a monster around your level. If it does, then there may be macro issues in play like poor gear.
Thanks. So, right now I’m running as Dragoon> Rete, thinking of getting Hop last, since the Finestra splash attribute is no longer a thing (Was really helpful before), and I don’t have enough crit to justify getting the crit damage buff from Sharpen Spear earlier, while the added CC from Rete sounds good for leveling. I have Gung Ho, Pain Barrier and Bear maxed as Swordie; Dragon Soar, Dragon Fall, Dragon Fear and Dethrone maxed as Dragoon; Throw Rete and Trident Finish maxed as Rete. As for Gear, I’m running stuff I found on Demon Prison while leveling, a Primus Golden Spear with bad stats identifyed, Berthas Rodeleine Shield, two Primus and two normal Eaglestar pieces of armor, and some accessories I crafted while leveling with low numbers in Physical Attack.
I usually open up with throw rete, then I put the Helmet, Dragon Soar, Dragon Fall, take off Helmet, while having Dragon Fear and Gung Ho up, and in Cranto at least, I had to do this 3-4 times before killing a pack of mobs, while weaving some AAs in between CDs.
People who say that SP regen reduce the problem.
As I know, it doesnt at all. Before RE:Build (correct me how it works in RE:BUILD) even if you had high SP regen, it didnt work during battle. This way its useless stat, you need to sit or use bonfire anyway. Its better to just stack dmg and kill something faster spending less SP per kill.
