I think that’s probably going to be the REAL problem regardless of what system we get, IMC will probably find a way to mess it up. A flat % based system is probably the least likely to be funked up. Needless to say, I would prefer an actual reasonable and working top down system but since that’s unlikely I’ll settle for rng as long as the rates are fair.
Once the item drops, regardless of which channel it drops on, the kill count resets
sure dorp rate resets to 1/500 for example… highend items can still drop @ 1/500 if you’re lucky enough…
in pure rng, drop rates remain 1/500 all the time…
rng+dpk aka top down >> pure rng at the same drop rates… no getting around this… no matter how others interpret this… they’re just wrong… rng+dpk is just god awesome…
bugs or faulty coding has really nothing to do with this… dev can screw up pure rng for all we know…
Am I the only one that liked the new DKP system? (bugs aside)
It’s the same as Diablo 3’s and I liked that.
IMC is just bad at describing it since they got technical with their explanation.
They could have just said… Ramping chance to get an item till it happens.
What is funny is that the current system could result in one person getting ‘all the drops’ across all channels, which is one of the primary reasons I dislike it.
Lets say there are 3 channels with a 1/300 drop, with the current topdown method, and there is 1 person in each channel.
HOWEVER, the person in channel 1 kills twice as fast as the ones in channel 2 and 3. There is no way for the person in channel 2 and 3 to know this, without changing channels and following them around. There is a high probability that the person in channel 1 could get the drop every single time for a period of time, since it is not channel exclusive.
Now lets look at RNG in the same scenario. What ever happens in channel 2 and 3 is of no consequence to the person in channel 1, so this will result in every person in each channel having equal opportunity for drops. Sure, person in channel 1 may get less overall, but it is for the greater good.
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Nothing is futureproof with IMC, don’t underestimate their capacity to mess things…
And unfortunally people will now be at mercy of RNGesus and he don’t have any.
That’s actually the funny thing about this Top-Down system. By definition when such a system is implemented (this system might be called a cooperative progressive RNG system), users are supposed to see it as helping each other out when they work towards the same goal.
The reason we actually perceive it as being the total opposite here is, once again, due to high DPK parameters. Let me give you numerical examples to make it easier to see. Lets say a map has 5 channels, 1 player each channel farming a certain item.
If that item DPK parameter is set to 10k (rare armor cubes): at first each player has a 0,01% chance to actually drop the item. Considering people aren’t abnormally lucky, it’s reasonable to assume drops won’t happen anytime soon. So let’s say the 5 players worked on their separate channels and killed a total of 9k mobs. At this point each player has a 0,1% chance to drop the item the next monster they kill. Let’s assume noone’s still that lucky, so they proceed to kill more 900 mobs without a drop. Now each player has a 1% chance to drop the item the next monster they kill. From this point on, players will definetely be competing against each other since once one of them gets the drop the drop rate will revert back to its starting 0,01% chance (which pretty much means no drop is happening so soon once more).
Now had that DPK for the same item been 200: at first each player would have a 0,5% chance to drop the item the next monster they kill. This way, the starting point is already “likely” enough to happen, so it might actually drop at any given moment more commonly. But let’s assume players are really unlucky this day, and proceed to kill 100 mobs. At this point each player faces a 1% drop chance, which will at most revert back to 0,5% as soon as the drop actually happens.
First example, it’s obvious there’s cooperation only up to the point drop rates start to become “statiscally feasible”, at which point a ferocious competiton starts. Since we don’t know at which point the DPK actually is at any given time, a rational player would likely preffer to farm by himself, without any more players on any other channel trying to “steal his efforts”.
The second example, within the same drop system framework, has a cooperation incentive which far surpasses the competitive incentive. Here players are much better off farming maps with as many players on other channels as possible. The only real limiting factor here is spawn rate, not other players at all.
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one person getting ‘all the drops’ across all channels…
no different from pure rng…
Good! Same system as Ragnarok Online. Now everyone has a chance to farm and drop things. Current DPK system is wrong for this type of game. Hope they implement this new system in iTOS as soon as possible.
To the person who said this couldn’t get philosophical, here it is.
People who like Topdown in its current implementation are Capitalists.
People who like RNG are Socialists.
I happen to be a Socialist.
Sadly, that’s still true for pure RNG. the only way to counter that possibility (even though I gotta warn you it’s a highly unlikely one as time goes on, as each player would have a drop rate which would tend to their relative efficiency in killing mobs) would be for “fail-safes” to be player-bound instead of map-bound as we have now.
As a matter of fact, we can assume such a monoply of drops situation is easier to happen on a pure RNG than a Top-Down system within a set time frame, simply because Top-Down will have more drops on average so “more” drops usually mean better chance of different players getting them.
ehh…
pure rng = capitalism…
on topic:
rng+dpk = god awesome…
I don’t see many similarties, if anything personal DPK is the most similar thing to socialism, which is ■■■■.
Seriously rng+dpk is the best drop system, we just needed lower dpk numbers. That’s all.
well socialism is ‘each gets an equal share’ kind of philosophy. Since this game is low population, we usually don’t see multiple people farming on the same map. Also the spawn rates just don’t promote tons of people on one map.
If there were multiple people on each map, then pure RNG would be back to capitalism since the fastest killer gets the spoils.
Man, now you’ve actually stretched it hehe. By chance, I’m here random-posting in this forum instead of writing my final paper on Political Economics (Marx, Post-Keynesians, Marginalists etc.), so let me debate you lol.
A socialist production system would assume people working towards a unified goal (let’s state it as being total number of drops) and once the goal had been reached, it’d be socially distribuited by some sort of social function of satisfaction (equally works for instance).
Meanwhile, a capitalist production system would assume people working independently towards goals, which may coincide but not necessarially, and each keeping the result of their own work.
However you see it, be it RNG or Top-Down neither have any relation to the socialist idea. if youmust, Top-Down is the only one which actually encompasses any sort of “a priori” cooperation which’s intrisic to socialist production systems, even though it’s “a posteriori” cooperation is also much stronger. Pure RNG only has cooperation “a posteriori” via the market system, which let’s say resembles quite a lot what we see in Marx’ view of Capitalism for example.
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There aren’t enough people farming dpk items, and the “numbers” required to the items to drop are too high, that’s why farming anything seems like a torture.
capitalism has no real failsafe… except trivial, and stupid bailouts… = pure rng has no fail safe…
on topic:
we still dont get equal share if we dont kill monsters…
rng+dpk have real failsafe…
That depends on the server and the mat, I’m sure Orsha and Fedimian suffer the most with the current system and numbers.
That’s what I said some days ago 
slight_smile:
If the DPK becomes personal there won’t be any enmity between players, since everybody is farming both for him and the others.
Considering the low population it could be possible to keep the monster count map-bound and the drops channel-bound
Well… I’m in Klaipeda, farming lyoni horns and I just endure farming 5 a day.
(And I spend 16 hours farming, because I’m on vacation)
I’m in klaip too and I’ve been farming lyonis the past 2 weeks (5k kills 29 horns so far) and I usually get a drop within 40mins-1hr, you must be really unlucky with bad killing speed for 1 drop every 3 hrs.