Don’t know if Corsair hook work on boss.
And your build was talking about unlocking hidden class using a terrible class combination. I don’t think IMC will check skill point distribution as requirement on unlocking hidden class.
And from what I’m seeing on tosbase, only ONE skill of Hoplite require 1H spear + shield (synchro thrusting), the rest work with 2H spear.
This system is quite good(not saying the old one is bad, old one was good too)
The new system also needs decisions in picking, when you all play it, you will know(based from past experience from other games with similar systems)
You were claiming rank 1 wizard skills and basic attack aren’t enough to solo all story bosses, but they’re plenty if bosses are that easy. A boss designed to be solo’d wouldn’t be immune in the first place, so have you found any element absorbing story bosses?
If waiting until ele fixes it and cryo just adds more options, this is false: “Going just cryo or just pyro, means you can not fight certain bosses or mobs because of elemental resistance/absorption.” No possible build fits that claim and gets fixed by the new system.
You can sacrifice higher tier classes you’re uninterested in. Are you really planning to play every single class? How many years will that take?
We seem to be at an impasse until further betas, since there’s disagreement on whether people’s builds will be OP or suck, and only putting them into practice will prove what’s balanced or not.
Yes there are a few, and yes they are enough solo I guess if that’s how you want to play.
Don’t have to wait till Ele to fix it, you don’t really see element absorbing bosses till later, you can go something else at rank 3. Ofcourse you can also just be a pure cryo/pyro till psycho and you can still party up to fight bosses that are difficult for you. The new system does not take away from that at all. But at least now you have the option to do something else.
That’s the beauty of the new system 
You can stay gimped, and solo, or party up to you.
Or you can choose different classes, and solo, or even party, totally up to you.
Now you have the option to do any of that.
What does taking every single class have to do with what I said? That’s a non sequitur . My point was that in both systems you have to skip classes and that you STILL can’t do everything on your own. Because of that, party play is still relevant which is what me and Fate have been explaining to you.
Ill play along, what if someone was uninterested in cleric rank 3 - 6 classes? They can focus on Priest Krivis now. In fact, we all know one of the biggest dilemmas was passing up on Resurrect to get either Divine Might or Krivis dps. Your own argument is in favor of the new system lol. Not interested in the higher tier classes? Focus on the 2 rank 2 classes you like.
A lot of your post was about that. “You have to skip a higher tier rank eventually” “you will have to entirely pass on a rank of classes.” “You will still have to party or make another character to experience either of the Rank 6 classes.” “You still can’t do everything in a single branch with 2 characters” Those are only issues if there’s no rank you’re willing to skip.
It isn’t unchanged, and it isn’t a binary 0% or 100% thing.
Under the only one from each tier system, they’d get both cleric and krivis to 3. No need for the new system.
Under the old system, they’d be disappointed with the 5th and 6th ranks. The DM/resurrect/krivis dilemma is an interesting choice, and all three choices justify a party slot. Removing that choice entirely dumbs things down. With only one from a tier, you can only get two of the three, so there’s still a hard choice to be made.
Yeah and new system : 10/??? builds will be more asked by the community because the majority thinks they are “better” builds (for instance take what Spaghetti said : Now you can get many support skills on same char so as you can only be 5 in a party it will be better than having to rely on several buffers.
So ppl will ask for “optimized” full support or full dps or full utility builds and probably less for “hybrid” builds or things like that. It will probably take some time though before this kind of discrimination start and as it’s a social game you will more likely play with friends so it doesn’t matter what The community thinks.
100, not 10.
And the game doesn’t have anything that demands such specialized party build.
I mean, Squire/Centurion are ‘support’, but to reach them you’d have to go through at least 4 ranks of offensive/defensive oriented classes, so it’s not like they can’t do damage at all, and in term of group benefit they’re arguably better than those pure-DPS classes.
It’s true but we don’t know anything about end game content and how it will be handled for now.
But as I said we still have time for all of that since we haven’t really played the final game yet and IMC seems to handle things well ib general for now so I’m not so worried about all of this. (Much more worried about the cash shop)
Because they’re on the same rank, one of the tricky aspect of the class system. Let’s make a lame analogy: the morning when you get dressed, you have to choose between a pair of trousers and a skirt. Choosing both is ridiculous. You got it? 
Like @FatePGN said. Yes it’s obvious, thank you guys, 100 good builds are better than 10 good builds. It’s pure logic guys. With the old system too, we had more odd builds than good builds. But now with the new system, with all the new possibilities, the ratio is even lower. It’s just maths. 
I added that odd builds can be fun too, because the point is NOT a matter of that. You could also had fun with the old system. As a reminder, when you progress in a game, generally you want to be more efficient, to “finish” all aspects of the game. That’s why if you want to test different things, you can start again several times, making different characters/scenarii. You can actually still start over and over of course, but the new system is so messy… Is it hard to understand that it need a few restrictions?
With a crap build, you cannot be as efficient/optimal/performant in a party than someone with a more suitable build. Logic too: in a war, you’ll make more damages with a bomb than with a slingshot (another analogy, just for you).
This is from your earlier post:
If you’re using made up number to justify your logic, then you’re already on the losing ground already.
Yes, because your demand for restriction is based on the expectation that people build ‘efficiently’, despite the people who are in favors of the new system having mix of both those whose opinion is ‘now my build is MORE EFFICIENT’ and those who don’t care about efficiency.
If you have your ‘efficient’ build already, good for you, how about stop trying to prevent other people from building theirs? And stop trying to set fire to your neighbor just because they don’t care about efficiency.
Not to mention that you DO NOT NEED ‘efficient’ build to ‘finish all aspects of the game’ (whatever that entails to you)
[quote=“trielav, post:458, topic:39433”]
Under the old system, they’d be disappointed with the 5th and 6th ranks. The DM/resurrect/krivis dilemma is an interesting choice, and all three choices justify a party slot. Removing that choice entirely dumbs things down. With only one from a tier, you can only get two of the three, so there’s still a hard choice to be made.
[/quote]It’s not interesting, it’s dumb. A class full of buffs that can’t be useful without another character of the same type (a second Cleric, that MUST be a Krivis). So you are taking 2 party slots to make one person decision useful.
Now we look at that Krivis. He wanted to be a Magic DPS Cleric, but he doesn’t like Sadhu, since punching things doesn’t feel like magic at all.
Krivis C2 is a must for Zaibas Attribute, which means he can’t go for Cleric C2 (stronger Cure) nor Bokor (Hexing + Effigy). Basically half of his build (assuming 6 Ranks) would not make any sense for what he wanted his character to be.
Yeah, the old system seems so healthy and fun.
[quote=“Luttie, post:461, topic:39433”]
It’s true but we don’t know anything about end game content and how it will be handled for now.
[/quote]PvE can be another matter, but for PvP i don’t think it will differ from now.
Glass cannon will suck, as well as full support (altho a bit less). Balance between damage and survivability will be the way to go.
[quote=“Arukado, post:462, topic:39433”]
Because they’re on the same rank, one of the tricky aspect of the class system. Let’s make a lame analogy: the morning when you get dressed, you have to choose between a pair of trousers and a skirt. Choosing both is ridiculous. You got it?
[/quote]You are just assuming the “old system” was the first and only one IMC thought about when developing the game, which isn’t true.
I doubt anyone would complain about this matter if the “new system” (that was even announced first as “how class advancement will work”) was the one released since the beggining.
The “old system” could have being used just to limit players on first betas so IMC could focus their data on more important things, just like how exp was limited on iCBT since their goal was not to test high level content to begin with.
So, unless you are a developer, stop assuming how ToS was/is meant to work.
Here is an analogy for you too:
At the age of 5 you can start playing soccer or ballet.
At 10 you can keep on soccer, start ballet, do karate or play an instrument.
At 15 you can do any of the others or go to a technical school learn a profession.
The class system can just work like this. They are not restricted decisions you make for that moment only (when getting a new Rank), but as you get more “mature” you can chose what to do from a bigger pool.
I can’t understand why everyone is saying there are crappy builds and good builds 'cause classes don’t synergize, if your class doesn’t synergise that’s just because you didn’t took the good skills combination and that’s all. That’s why theorycraft exist > Think hard and makes your classes synergize ^^
If people don’t want of you in their team because they’re sure you have a crappy build? Then just don’t play with them and play with other that’s all.
In term of Dps a 3circles Swordsman’s skill damages (example : Bash lvl15) or a 3 Circle Cataphract’s damages (Doom Spike lvl 10) are the same because of cooldowns. Doom Spike does 1812damages every 40sec, Bash does 292 every 6sec. In The cooldown time of doomspike you have the time to do 6.7bashes : That is 1956damages. And we can even say 7, because doom spike has a casting time too : so taht would be 2044damages every 40sec. Surely if you have Cataphract c3. Surely you could be Cataphract c3 + Swordsman C3 to double your dps, but to double your dps you will lose something like Squire support maybe? Or Rodolero’s Control? Or anything else 
A lot of these classes has pretty good skills and attributes. So it very easy create viable build with this system…
I guess fireball+ice wall+psychic pressure will work with this new system…
Fireball + pressure was nerfed on the second day of KR test server. Now pressure pushes fireball like a melee attack.
Wo that sux so HARD
Why recrut cyro in your team if you can have guy can be pyro and cyro ?
0 diversity in team
that sux
i hate this new system
I don’t have any efficient build yet, because the game is still on beta phase. Things change quickly all the time.
Well, yes, my bad, I must have misspoken… You don’t need to have an efficient build to finish a game but… Take an example: your team needs a tank/support, would you rather choose a pally or a krivis? The pally seems to be more efficient. Choosing between a Cleric/Priest/Pally or a Krivis/Sadhu/Pally? The first seems to be a better choice, right?
Can’t I express my thoughts like anyone else? Sure my point is based on how it was in the first place. I found it very limited, and the new one seems to be too much permissive IMO. Both were interesting though, but need calibrations IMO. Sorry to bother you with my impressions…
Pyro 3 with other rank combination is much better than normal Pyro 3… Sorry but your post felt like sarcasm xD
Why its so hard to understand this system 
If game has more good build viable then how it can suddenly make this game worser? Some people might take one rank just for few skill or even for 1 skill. Its your own fault if u create shitty builds… You can always learn from your mistake… This system is what makes Tree of savior special…
New system does not make party playing shitty and u need understand that Party have 5 char limits… So its good if one class can have same rank buffs…