New Class Advancement System

[harimaku]

Lol 1 good build… Are you serious?? I have created a lots of good builds with the simulator alone…

[trielav]

Lmao how does it make players make fewer alts?. It will make people willing to make more alts because the number of possible combinations have risen, while the “cap”(max rank) has stayed the same.

Have fun making a dozen terrible combinations. The rest of us will be focusing on just getting the stuff we care about.

The only thing I just hope is that IMC really knows what they are doing and that this doesn’t affect negatively PVP and Crowd vs Crowd in a way that only a few builds are actually viable for those kind of content.

Things will really get fun around here if we get high level pvp in icbt. One trick IMC can pull is to allow us to take advantage of OP combinations at first so they can get a good roadmap of where the balance issues are and revise the system with that data.

[sebastian_sanders199]

Yup, I’ve 20+ great builds ready to go

[sebastian_sanders199]

Dw, I’ve more than 12 good combinations ready to go(given the 6 ranks we know atm). I think they’ll all be top tier/useful ^^

[harimaku]

I still dont get your point… Even if u can have those buffs combination… How its suddenly killing the game??? You still use those skill for buffing party members… We dont need millons of different buffer for one party… Less is always better if they can have most of those buffs and I dont wanna pay for expensive buffs…

[harimaku]

Have fun making a dozen terrible combinations. The rest of us will be focusing on just getting the stuff we care about.

But this system allow you create more good build than before even thought the shitty build meter increase… Now I can create Corsair + squire instead of Corsair + Doppel… Which is good for my build because I want more dps, Hp and Sp for my constant usage of buffs…

[Calvin]

My build changed alot when I remembered there is such thing, cmon pla flash add it…

[rofldat]

Have fun making a dozen terrible combinations. The rest of us will be focusing on just getting the stuff we care about.

Ummm, on what basis are you saying their builds will be terrible?

We have the example of Hoplite + Barb earlier that require the new system to work.

“stuff we care about”
Ok, is EVERYTHING you care about possible with the current build? Is there absolutely no upgrade to your ‘idea’ (not build, the idea behind the build) in the new system? Or do you not get any new idea of new combinations with the removed limitation?

If so, you have your cake, now just sit down and eat your cake, not go around slapping other people for wanting a different thing than you.

Also if it really turns out their build is terrible, it’s their responsibility, not yours.

[Garrnett]

Imagine that there is going to be a hidden class for the worst possible builds one of which is IMO (Swordsman > Highlander > Hoplite > Cataphract > Squire > Corsair) … You’d be a weapon master but you’d never do any good amount of damage

[Delven]

Well i can’t be sure anyway, i couldn’t find it back so there are some chances i’m mistaking, we’ll see with japanese CBT maybe.

[harimaku]

This new system makes more sense considering that they are planning to have hidden classes. From the sound of things, hidden classes will be classes that will show up in your class change list only after you’ve completed its requirements. In the old system, if you were not aware of a hidden class, it’s possible to completely lock yourself out of that class.

[Satoru]

[quote=“Grillo, post:428, topic:39433”]
OMG! thx XDD thought they only worked on the caster + 1 party member, well you saved me from making a crappy alt xDDD
[/quote]I remember some buffs were written/translated as “you and one party member” or something like that (Fire Enchant), but they actualy work for anyone close enough to you (maybe with a number limit).

[quote=“Grillo, post:428, topic:39433”]
so to compensate for that you “had” to party to get those cool combos (like Krivis Daino and Priest Buffs)
[/quote]But it just makes sense to me that a support Cleric will also have Daino…?
Most content will let us party with 5 people, so to make one support Cleric (Priest) useful we would need another support Cleric (for Daino, or a Cleric going for magic DPS, but not all of those went for Krivis) on the old system…?

[rofldat]

But you’ll have Squire’s weapon buff and Corsair’s flag, even if your own damage is not the best you still have the party support.

Sure your damage is far from great, but you also have Arrest, which can reduce the boss’s defense by 50% for the 10s duration of Arrest, and you can also them some more with Corsair’s hauling.

If you also use 2H spear, the only questionable pick in that tree would be Highlander instead of Swords2 (since peltasta require shield)

[Garrnett]

Does Iron Hook even work with bosses? If so, Squire + Corsair wouldn’t be bad at all.

And the build I was talking about chooses the worst skills in the classes which don’t synergize with each other. Also, I’m fairly sure that only the beginning classes I chose were bad at least imo since cross guard only works with 2h swords and hoplite is all 1h spear. The later ranks, I couldn’t think of anything bad to put there.

[Spaghetti]

or Krivis and Priest? Will choosing both classes in rank suddenly break the game?

You can have just one character instead of two, so if making fewer alts or bringing fewer players to get the important abilities counts as breaking the game, yes.

What is wrong with you guys’ math? More combinations means more builds to try/play which means more replay value.

Old system, you couldn’t play Krivis and Priest at the same time. You had to either make another character or party to “experience” both. New system, you can play Krivis and Priest, so you don’t have to create another character or party to “experience” both. HOWEVER, if you go Krivis and Priest, you have to skip a higher tier rank eventually. Going Krivis and Priest means you have 3 ranks left to choose between 8 higher tier classes (rank 6), even less if you circle Krivis and Priest. So even if you circle1 every class you play, you will have to entirely pass on a rank of classes.

I.E. Cleric>Krivis>Priest>Deiv>Sadhu>Pardoner. You will still have to party or make another character to experience either of the Rank 6 classes. How is this game breaking? Exactly how is more builds and combinations equal less alts and less party play?

You still can’t do everything in a single branch with 2 characters. Even if you circle1 each branch path on 2 characters to play every class, you won’t have circle2 and 3 skills and attributes so you STILL will have to make at least a 3rd character to fully develop just a few classes.

Like, how will going pyro and cryo or krivis and priest exactly break the game? Better yet, how will going Hunter and Sapper break the game? lol

[thebloodyaugust]

Lol 1 good build… Are you serious?? I have created a lots of good builds with the simulator alone…

-.- i feel like you misunderstood @Arukado is not saying there will be only 1 good per class their saying for every one good build there will be 10 bad ones. In other words its a hypothetical ratio of 1:10.

[Spaghetti]

How exactly did you conclude this 10:1 ratio? Are you saying there were more good builds than bad builds in the old system? Did you actually go thru all the possible builds to reach your conclusion?

[Arukado]

@harimaku & @Spaghetti…
-.- Are you serious guys? sigh… Yes, it’s a ratio (thank you @thebloodyaugust). Not an accurate one of course, just a random number (it can be a smaller ratio) but it’s only pure logic. We have a lot more of “odd builds” (shitty or fun or useless) than “good builds”.

[FatePGN]

There’s no reason not to halt it in a multiplayer game. If xxKirito420xx has to accept a party invitation for one boss, that’s not the end of the world. But why do story bosses need to be immune to fire to begin with? “It’s a fiery monster so it just makes sense”? It makes more sense to bring a party to fight a boss.

You’ll be in for quite a surprise if you believe casual story content is not meant to be soloable in MMO’s. Story bosses in ToS are nothing more than just a stronger version of normal mobs tbh, and the game was developed around scaling story bosses to the amount of members fighting against it, so it was designed for solo play while still adding difficulty for parties.

Also IMC has said in numerous occasions (most recently the JP FGT QnA) that they want this game to be completely viable for solo play.

Under the new system, someone who wants to go pyro3-ele3-(insert high rank class) will still have the same issues, so nothing is solved. You already had the option of going psycho to kill those bosses, so allowing cryo does nothing.

No? Ele has more than just fire. And as for going psycho later, well now you have more options.

@Arukado Even if we assume the ratio for classes in the previous system had more useful builds, the fact is, we can assume that as a flat number, we have more useful builds now.

EX:
Old system:
10/888 builds were good. So 10 builds were good.
New system:
100/???(didn’t do the map for the total number of builds) are good. So 100 builds are good now.

[Spaghetti]

1. I’m still wondering how going Pryo and Cryo or Krivis and Priest or Hunter and Sapper will hurt the game, since you are against the new system.

2. Sure, it’s a ratio but that doesn’t mean it’s pure logic. Players have more builds and freedom at their disposal, yet you say it’s bad thing because we shouldn’t be able to pick both classes of a same rank. That’s arbitrary. You have no problem with, say, someone going Rodelero > Squire but god forbid someone goes Rodelero > Cataphract. What is this logic you speak of? What if Cataphract was rank 5 and Corsair rank 4? Then you would be fine with Rodelero > Cataphract correct? According to your logic you would be ok with that, but that reasoning is so arbitrary. You are stuck on “Well since IMC, for whatever reason that we don’t know of, placed Rodelero and Cataphract on the same rank, then it will always be wrong to play both Rode and Cata on the same character, JUST because they are rank 4.” That’s what you sound like.

3. There were good (to some, good can be fun as well. Good is a subjective word.) builds AS WELL as “shitty” and useless builds with the old system. Now, there are more good and fun builds AS WELL as shitty and useless builds. Even if the ratio now shows more bad builds than good builds, we still have more good builds to play with.

4. You expect anyone to seriously go Peltastar2, Highlander2, Corsair1? You make it seem like because there are more bad builds that proportionally more people will make more useless builds. And if they did? So what? Maybe a few people RP together and one of them wants to switch between sword/shield semi tank to 2H aoe semi dps. They are not optimal, but do they have to be? Maybe it’s fun to them and that’s how they want to play. Maybe they don’t want optimal builds that everyone and their mother has a guide on. Maybe that shitty build is a play style from another game that they are trying to emulate on this one. Idk, but if it’s what they want then ok.

5. What if people with crap builds join my party and perform well in a raid? That’s unfortunate but there were craps builds in the old system so yeah. And it’s not like the new system’s goal was to eliminate crap builds, it seems to be about more customization. As long as there are classes that don’t synergize with others, there will always be crap builds that people can make.