Hi, i need some help for a swordsman build, the only thing i can say for now is that i’m using sw3 high2 dopp3 shinobi, and i want more options to go. I play only pve and would like a AoE build if possible. I liked that shino doppel build, but cyclone isn’t that great than before, and i’m feeling a bit weak in terms of aoe.
Thanks in advance, and sorry for my bad english!
Cyclone is the second best AoE dps skills in swordman tree, the best being Dragoon’s C3 Dragon Fall.
Cyclone is very strong, but you need to invest into it. Having Cyclone only lv 3 is a waste if you want AoE dps. Cyclone deals 27 hits which results in 6939% factor at skill lv 15 over 5.5 seconds. That factor goes up to 9228% with DoV lv 15.
Here’s my build’s skill distribution:
https://tos.neet.tv/skill-planner#112211999d.233f5f6785.3a49557581.411f5c6a7691.552545
I went for Zornhau lv 10 Cyclone 12 instead of Zornhau 6 Cyclone 15, but you can pick the latter if you want.
Dragon Fall may be stronger, but Dragoons have very few skills in their rotation. As for good AoE skills, they mostly get only Dragon Fall and Dethrone (Gae Bulg AoE is kinda eh). You have Cyclone which is very strong by itself and you also have clones that can copy Double Slash, Moulinet and Kunai, making your AoE dps even better.
Your build (Sw3 High2 Dopp3 Shino) is among the best for swordman’s AoE dps. The biggest issue, however, is the lack of Swash Buckling that helps grouping up mobs together. I have both Pelta 2 Hop 3 Dragoon 3 and Sw 3 HL 2 Dopp 3 Shino (your build) and the latter only takes longer killing stuff because of the lack of proper mob grouping. If you party with another swordy that has Peltasta, or a Cryo 3 with Frost Pillar, you’ll be at least killing as fast as the Dragoon 3.
If you want better AoE dps than that, you should make a AoE dps wiz/archer/cleric build instead.
Thanks for the reply!
My skill distribution is like this: https://tos.neet.tv/skill-planner#112211999d.23374f5f85.3a45557585.1f325466867a91a1.552545
Do you think is worth it to invest in cyclone instead zucken? I Always have this doubt since i barely use zucken… And i have 0 points in Punish…
And about Swordsman skills, in your opinion isn’t worth invest in concentrate? (i use 120 DEX invested and rest STR)
Here’s my suggestion:
https://tos.neet.tv/skill-planner#112211999d.3f5f7a85.3a41557585.1f5369867a91a1.552541
Zucken isn’t very good right now. It’s a mana-hog and doesn’t do much damage (about 3900% damage with DoV, Zwerchhau and Shocked enemy). After the multihit fix, it should be better (5500% instead). Might as well get it for bossing.
Zucken isn’t very weak but it’s worse than Zornhau and Redel. If you want better AoE damage you need to sacrifice something in exchange for Cyclone or even Punish. Zucken is your best option to sacrifice.
Don’t miss out on Punish, it deals 3 hits to each enemy with the attribute (after patch) which makes it deal 1959% factor at skill lv 1 and DoV 15. It has a very good area, though it’s limited by AoE atk ratio.
It’s very hard to hit 5+ mobs with Zucken, but not hard at all to do the same with Punish. So even if it has less skill factor (and damage), it’s total dps among all mobs is better.
Not really. Concentrate needs full DEX to be worth it and Doppel 3 doesn’t quite fit full DEX build.
You can get some DEX (like the 120 you got) but you’ll lose out on a lot of damage until you get trans 6+ weapon, which by then, full STR or full DEX won’t make a major difference to your damage.
Full STR makes you see a really big damage boost when you don’t have transcended weapons. STR sums up to around 60% of your damage when you don’t have transcended weapons. Meaning a full STR build deals more than double damage of a No-STR build (without trans).
When you get trans 6, STR becomes only about 10~20% of your total damage, and keeps diminishing until trans 10.
I went full STR on my doppel.
His suggestion is good for a default doppel build. If you’re focusing more on AoE dps, tho, I would recommend getting more lvls in Cyclone and/or Punish. At least lv 1 Punish would help a lot, too.
Pommel Beat with clones is okay against bosses, but it has only 2 AoE atk ratio (fixed) and a terrible AoE range. It’s also a strike type skill which doesn’t benefit off Zwerchau. You can get it lv 7 and keep Bash lv 3 to be able to knockdown stuff for Punish (which is essential if you want more AoE dps). The other option is taking points off Restrain in my build and getting Bash lv 10, which doesn’t give a lot of damage, but still can be copied by clones and has only 6 sec cd.
Sux that imc “fixed” punish, it’s not half as good as it used to be lv1
I’ll try this tomorrow, your doppel can use the skills in a “clean” way even without dex? I refer to atk speed…
Btw i liked the idea of sacrifing zucken for more points in cyclone, since i barely use it, and i’ll reset my status for full str too. Thanks 
well, for swordman, doppel is the option for aoe dps,
i have weird build
sw1 hl3 pelt1 doppel3 shino
u might think pelt1 is async with doppel, but i need swash buck to be able to solo aoe dps
and the weirdest is even tho im doppel but i dont invest on dov at all, instead i invest the rest 15 points to maxed dps skills i like, zornhau, redel, zucken, sturtzhau, and 10 points for cyclone, i like this skills set i have so i can do dps non stop, why non stop, because i have bunshin too can deal pretty good aoe damage and not bother rebuff dov every minute
Doppel has no attack speed bonus on skills.
DoppelC1>Dragoon C3 is the better aoe dps build now.
Without Punish the way it worked before Dragoon c3 is just stronger.
Dragonfall ignored aoe ratio.
In the 340 hg i can kill alle the waves from a red mob with 1 single dragonfall +double pay earn.
He got Cyclone too + dethrone/Dragontooth.
And sorry but not taking DoV is just dumb ^^
Its way to good to pass.
i saw dragoon too, dragonfall is very high damage, but it has long CD 50 sec if im not wrong, and idk the rest class choices before dragoon that will contribute good aoe damage
i know what u mean, but in my opinion, 15 skill points for 33% dmg up 19% more dmg taken, i cant trade that much skills pts, i think invest it to other dps skills will have same or more 33% damage benefit, and even more if we have chrono in our party, plus doppel builds now can have shinobi for more aoe dmg, again that just my opinion
I will convince you to take DoV.
let say you give 10 to Zorhnhau, redel, zucken, cyclone, and 5 sturtzhau.
zorhnhau = 1242%
redel = 368%
zucken = 349%
cyclone = 219%
sturtz = 271%
and my 8 zornhau, 10 redel, 6 zucken, 3 cyclone, and 1 sturtz + 15 DoV
zorn = 1135% x 1.33 = 1509%
redel = 368% x 1.33 = 489%
zucken = 289% x 1.33 = 384%
cyclone = 165% x 1.33 = 219%
sturzt = 183% x 1.33 = 243%
I pretty much have higher SF on everything beside sturtz. taking 20% more damage is really miniscule now, comparing that you get 0 def before, and broken monster attack.
agree with this though. it’s dumb. I wish IMC just make every full time buff to 5 min.
do u have a link for this build? i’ll test this too 
and cyclone is strong with just 5 points?
another question, this build will probably have hoplite, so do u use 1h spear or 2h?
Thanks <3
Well serpentine debuff 50% more physical dmg last the full duration of 1 Cyclone.
With my trans 5 1h spear 1 Cyclone hit deals 30-35k.
https://tos.neet.tv/skill-planner#1134449fff.253555.3545.3f5171.153555.1c21354b5a7581
2h spear is better for bossing.
1h spear is better for farming/pvp its up to you.
Hoplite skills up too you too.
Spearthrow is garbage
Synchrothrust only works with 1h spear+shield.
Stabbing may get good soon if we get the patch.
Pierce is “ok”.
Spearthrow lvl 1 can be use as aggro tool in some situations.
I have some more questions…
do you have the cyclone atribute? mine is in lvl 61 (cyclone lvl 12, using a +11 trans 0 2h sword, i’m a doppel3 shino*) and hitting the same as yours
can i use cyclone with 2h spears?
about 2h or 1h spears, why 1h spear is better for farming?
do you use leather or plate set?
Thanks again
Edit: class that i’m using*
Cyclone is lvl 50 Attri.
But… its a filler.
For pve leather should be better.
Cyclone goes with all weapons.
1h spear is better for farming because you can wear a shield and Swash only works with shield or dagger in the offhand.
And 1h spears give 25% more dmg on medium enemys.(Hop c3 attri)
Thanks for all the information! I was thinking about 2h spear 'cause more dmg and 5 slots, but it means less defense and -25% on medium targets… did you already test if you can swash and then change to 2h spear?
Edit: do u use shield or dagger? If shield, which one?
Going hop3 on 2H a bit of synergy waste, might as well go sw3barb1pelt1dop1goon3.
https://tos.neet.tv/skill-planner#1111639fff
I have tried both builds in 350 HG with 2H spear reaching 9K PATK during the reset event. The sw1pelt1hoplite3dop1goon3’s rotation is clunkier I end up using cyclone alot to clear left over mobs which is quite a drag to use. While sw3barb1pelt1dop1goon3 version has smoother rotation, cleave > soar/doubleslash clears a batch of mob in one go, ironically with sw3barb1 variant i rarely used cyclone. Swapping to swash can be tasky and annoying but anyway it’s mostly used only to maximize dragonfall victims. Hoplite variant gives you around 150+ PATK with gungho at full STR and 200 crit rate from max finestra while sw3barb1 gives you 500+ PATK with max gungho at full STR. Crit rate needs investment for you to feel the effect while raw damage is good all around . With the future overheat patch, cleave > dragonsoar will be your main combo, double slash/dethrone as filler to kill left over, and dragonfall to for mobs.
IMO. hoplite variant is more suited for PVP while slash variants is more suited for PVE.
I’m a bit afraid to go to this build with sw3 and barb1 since i’m no rich player, and i doubt that i can reach 9k PATK like you… So which one of these builds you recommend for me? And the difference of damage is really big between these two builds?
(sorry for my english)
If you intend to use dragoon as farmer which is not advisable because wizard path with thauma is cheaper and arguably better as a farmer.
then these two:
https://tos.neet.tv/skill-planner#1134449fff (1H spear)
https://tos.neet.tv/skill-planner#1111639fff (2H spear preferably)
otherwise for general PVE,
https://tos.neet.tv/skill-planner#1111444fff (can be 1H/2H)
*skill breakdown will depend on weapon choice